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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg ladies and

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gentlemen I was about to bring in an

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echo chamber and announced this like the

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ring announcer at a boxing match but

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we're trying to keep this civil so there

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are no boxing gloves

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there is no ring there are no ropes

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chris is going to serve though as the

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trainer and the doctor so just in case

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someone gets injured you know I'm the

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cut man they'll be the cut man and you

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know if it gets really dark and dirty

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man we're gonna cut I'll tell you but

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seriously speaking we're going to try to

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cast a little light on the reports or

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legends of old UFO case involving the

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report of a possible UFO crash at Aztec

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New Mexico in 1948 now our two guests

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are Scott Ramsey who's written a book

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about the subject with his wife Suzanne

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and Frank Thayer and Frank Warren and we

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have Kevin Randall who has written many

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books on lots of subjects but doesn't

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believe in a stick now this particular

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debate got started as a result of Kevin

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making a few comments on this subject

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during his last appearance in the power

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cast so Scott wanted to get on and

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answer so now Scott's gonna have first

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up to the mic he's gonna answer a few

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things from Kevin than Kevin you could

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answer him in return and what I'm going

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to ask is that you all try to keep your

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responses reasonably short because

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obviously the way the show is formatted

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we break it up into ten minute segments

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and we can't have one person talking for

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ten minutes because that means the

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response can't come to the next segment

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so let's just try to keep it going

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so Kevin Randall Scott

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MZ thank you both for joining us on the

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para cast let's start with Scott you

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listen to Catherine's appearance on the

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last episode you had a few things to say

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before we get on yeah actually I want to

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go back to August 5th 2012 I've never

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had time to respond to Kevin on that

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it's similar the the claims he made and

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I don't know if it's the fact that Kevin

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read the book in a hurry or was that a

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couple of things that stuck out Kevin

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made the comment that I had never knew

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Doug Noland and that my interview

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concerning Doug was based on other

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people's secondhand people is that

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correct heaven that doesn't sound right

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to me but I don't remember well okay

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well what I understood was that the

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first interview recorded interview had

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been conducted by John Lear and some guy

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named Randy Doug Nolan after Doug Nolan

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led one of the previous books on it and

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then you interviewed him at some later

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point yeah I interviewed Doug in 2004

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twice and I wasn't even aware of the

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John Lear tape until many years later

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when John sent it to me but the jipped

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of everything in the book nothing about

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John Lear's interview is in the book so

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everything that I talk about the Doug

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told us and I have a you know on audio

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that I wish I had it on video but that

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is all first-hand information from Doug

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to me in 2004 so I just wanted to

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clarify that because you said well

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Ramsey now I'm reading transcription

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Ramsey never interviewed Doug Noland now

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that probably was something I said at

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the time one before I had all the

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information on it but my understanding

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was the original tape was done by Lear

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and you had a copy of the tape yes I do

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mm-hmm yeah it's almost three hours long

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okay I got more but while we just save

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them for the show I mean you know I'm

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sure kevin has a couple of questions for

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me and I was just gonna wait for things

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to come moving along very good

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okay so we've moved on a little bit

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let's continue here now one point you

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keep making Scott is

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whether or not and you asked me about

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this and I guess you've mentioned the

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same thing about Kevin whether he read

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your book the Aztec incident Kevin you

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did read the book right yeah

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okay now let me ask you then what is the

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most serious point do you feel that's

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lacking the in indicating the potential

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that a UFO crash at Aztec any

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documentation from March marks our March

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of 1948 newspaper accounts diary entries

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letters anything from March of 1948 that

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suggests that anything happened that's

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fair yep

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well unfortunately you know Aztec was a

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tiny tiny town back in 48 not that it's

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any bigger today it's 6,800 people back

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then they had the newspaper that came

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out every Thursday and it was more of a

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sale flyer than it was I mean we've got

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copies we actually copied all of 48 49

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and 50 recently we went back looking at

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51 and 52 because we're looking for the

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the Bauer article that we've never been

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able to find that everybody claims is

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there it's not not Kevin but other

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people that once a week newspaper really

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concentrated more on the front page of

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what was new and who was having what

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sales on what mercantile throughout

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Blanco and the surrounding area they

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didn't have a very good newspaper thus

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it was acquired in the early 50s by the

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Farmington Daily Times so yes there are

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no articles no reference to it but on

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the other hand everybody

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I keep hearing about the the Bauer

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article that he wrote it as a

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tongue-in-cheek April first prank that

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was you know we look for years ago and

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just recently because that came up again

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we went back and I had Brooks Marshall

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from mass tech he lives right there X el

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paso oil company employee goes micro

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natural gas it is now okay

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yeah well actually it's just been sold

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again as a matter of fact the tensioner

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has just got noticed that they've been

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sold but the

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is I keep hearing people and again not

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Kevin state about well Frank Iero our

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article talks about the the April Fool

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hoax we can't find that article the fact

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is I don't think any of them exist I

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mean it wasn't more of a sale flyer I

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got copies I can send you guys well at

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the point simply is that there's no

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contemporary documentation for this when

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you look at some of the other alleged

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UFO crashes there's always something

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that's been mentioned somewhere we can

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Crace it back to newspaper articles we

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can find things from that time frame but

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with the Aztek there's nothing that

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appears until Frank Scully does his

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tongue and cheek article in daily I

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guess it was weekly variety at the time

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and and I first in 1949 I think it was

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and Scully's article is actually making

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fun of it so part of me finding erupting

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Chris here so what you're saying is is

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the earliest reference to a potential

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crash at Aztec was not until almost two

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years later it's not to you do you have

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anything that was publicly released

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before that no it was 49 in Scully's

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first article and in Scully's article

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okay so was doing how far after they let

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the crash date did that article come out

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18 March 25th - I don't I don't know the

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answer to that I I have it here in my

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boxes but I mean there's so it was

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within within a couple months is what

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you're saying

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no no I would I think it was October

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1949 so we're talking seven eight months

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later then no October 49 as opposed to

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March of 1948 oh I see what you're

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saying okay so it is it is a year and a

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half later okay yeah okay well Scott

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what do you what sort of documentation

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you have prior to that

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Scully article that that actually

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mentions the the case in some regard

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other than eyewitness testimony we've

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had over the years there is nothing

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written

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nothing I've been able to find Wow that

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is that is kind of peculiar and that's a

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good point that you bring up Kevin

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Scot went you know for some of our

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first-time listeners and people that

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quite aren't quite up to speed about the

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case why don't you give us a quick 30

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second thumbnail of what the Aztec crash

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was in according to your yield 20-plus

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years of research into it give us a nice

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little thumbnail sketch of the Aztec

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crash for our first-time listeners and

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before you do let's do our break okay

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guys and then we'll start our second

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segment and Scott Ramsay will give us

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that very brief Reader's Digest version

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of the Aztec crash and then we can

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continue the back and forth from the

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questioning and by the way Scott

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Ramsay's book is called the Aztec

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incident written with his wife Suzanne

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Ramsey along with dr. Frank fair and

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Frank Warren we also have Kevin Randall

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with gene and Chris you're in the para

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cast attack of the rock codes has been

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well received by critics and readers

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alike it's a thrill a minute story

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you'll never forget a former US military

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intelligence officer is haunted by

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intense dreams about a beautiful woman

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pleading for his help after a terrible

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battle in outer space but the dreams

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turn out to be true and thrust him into

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a telepathic love affair with a woman

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whose faraway planet is intent on

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destroying the earth and now the

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289
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hear from you if you have a comment or

297
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question about the para cast send it to

298
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muse at the para cast com that's news at

299
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the para cast dot-com and don't forget

300
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to visit our famous para cast community

301
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forums at forum dr. podcast.com with

302
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Gina with Chris we have Scott Ramsey

303
00:14:29,530 --> 00:14:26,480
author of the Aztec incident along with

304
00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:29,540
Suzanne Ramsey Frank Thayer and Frank

305
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:31,430
Warren and Kevin Randall who has written

306
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:33,290
many thousands of books and we're

307
00:14:38,950 --> 00:14:35,450
continuing our discussion and we're

308
00:14:41,290 --> 00:14:38,960
going to right now bring everybody a

309
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:41,300
little bit of a reminder here a short

310
00:14:46,660 --> 00:14:44,290
Reader's Digest kind of version of the

311
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:46,670
Aztec incident and what supposedly

312
00:14:54,250 --> 00:14:50,240
happened at Hart Canyon back in 1948

313
00:14:56,290 --> 00:14:54,260
Scott thanks Jane yeah the story from

314
00:14:58,750 --> 00:14:56,300
what we've learned over the years is oil

315
00:15:01,360 --> 00:14:58,760
field workers responding to a brush fire

316
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:01,370
out on Hart Canyon Road near their drip

317
00:15:04,870 --> 00:15:03,050
tanks the company drip tanks which is

318
00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:04,880
never a good idea to have fire near the

319
00:15:09,250 --> 00:15:07,190
drip tanks once they got out there they

320
00:15:11,860 --> 00:15:09,260
realized the brush fire was up on top of

321
00:15:14,350 --> 00:15:11,870
the Mesa not near not any danger of the

322
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:14,360
drip tanks and some of the oil field

323
00:15:18,130 --> 00:15:16,010
workers that responded and got their

324
00:15:21,190 --> 00:15:18,140
first called up Bill Ferguson and Doug

325
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:21,200
Noland bill being a foreman for the oil

326
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:23,090
company and said it's not a threat but

327
00:15:27,250 --> 00:15:25,610
you got to see what's up here and this

328
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:27,260
short version is they got up there and

329
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:29,110
there as Doug described it as a

330
00:15:34,690 --> 00:15:32,090
lenticular object laying on top of the

331
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:34,700
Mesa a very large lenticular object and

332
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:37,610
that's how the story started with us and

333
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:40,250
so we did the research over the years

334
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:43,040
and it's led to 26 and a half years and

335
00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:45,710
and then a book that's the Reader's

336
00:15:49,390 --> 00:15:48,950
Digest version okay Kevin listening to

337
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:49,400
that

338
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:52,160
what's your response what do you need to

339
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:54,170
consider this case is something worthy

340
00:16:00,700 --> 00:15:57,290
of further investigation oh I don't know

341
00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:00,710
where to begin the story told by Doug

342
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:03,740
Nolan matches somewhat the story that

343
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,290
was printed by Scully and me behind the

344
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:09,440
flying saucers as related by Silas

345
00:16:18,580 --> 00:16:13,610
Newton and Leo G Bower it diverts in

346
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:18,590
some major ways the original covers of

347
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:21,410
this tale Newton and devour were

348
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:24,560
well-known con men who got themselves in

349
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:26,570
trouble throughout the entire lives with

350
00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:28,160
a number of cons working in the oil

351
00:16:34,270 --> 00:16:32,090
fields we need some documentation to

352
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:34,280
suggest these events took place other

353
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:37,010
than the testimonies I know Scott in his

354
00:16:40,930 --> 00:16:39,410
book talks about manual sound of all who

355
00:16:43,690 --> 00:16:40,940
was a police officer but I don't believe

356
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:43,700
Scott ever interviewed him and yet if as

357
00:16:46,330 --> 00:16:45,050
you read the book you would think that

358
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:46,340
Scott had gotten a lot of good

359
00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:48,320
information from the manual sound of all

360
00:16:52,690 --> 00:16:50,270
the police officer I think of some Cuba

361
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:52,700
and New Mexico I plainly state where the

362
00:16:57,580 --> 00:16:55,850
information came from German if you read

363
00:16:59,740 --> 00:16:57,590
the book yet look did you interview

364
00:17:01,720 --> 00:16:59,750
Manuel sand of all no I interviewed his

365
00:17:04,060 --> 00:17:01,730
best friend I state that and looking at

366
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:04,070
the book right now but the way that it

367
00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:07,910
was hazy and misleading how I let into

368
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:09,740
that I stayed very plainly Johnny

369
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:11,930
Hernandez sat down and told Suzanne and

370
00:17:17,410 --> 00:17:15,199
I had a story yes and it's not men but

371
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:17,420
but it's from a secondhand source is my

372
00:17:20,890 --> 00:17:19,190
pitch from his best friend you have sent

373
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:20,900
you two will you put family member and

374
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:25,010
what you say question from I had the

375
00:17:28,780 --> 00:17:26,570
impression from the Aztec incident it

376
00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:28,790
was a family number that you had spoken

377
00:17:33,550 --> 00:17:31,790
to no no there's an elderly son that's

378
00:17:34,180 --> 00:17:33,560
still alive and I believe he's still in

379
00:17:36,970 --> 00:17:34,190
a nursing home

380
00:17:38,770 --> 00:17:36,980
no Manuel was long dead that that's why

381
00:17:41,050 --> 00:17:38,780
I think sometimes the book was read

382
00:17:42,970 --> 00:17:41,060
quickly and you didn't absorb a whole

383
00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:42,980
lot of the detail yeah that the whole

384
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:45,910
section on Manuel sand of all was

385
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:48,410
courtesy of Johnny Hernandez who is

386
00:17:51,010 --> 00:17:49,970
still alive and lives in Cuba he is

387
00:17:53,890 --> 00:17:51,020
actually a town his

388
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:53,900
story and what page is that on I just

389
00:17:57,940 --> 00:17:56,090
closed the book hang on here I want to

390
00:18:00,160 --> 00:17:57,950
show you how spontaneous this episode is

391
00:18:02,710 --> 00:18:00,170
they're going right back to the book to

392
00:18:04,750 --> 00:18:02,720
find the specific references so that we

393
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:04,760
can go over each and every aspect of

394
00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:07,370
this case to make sure that they're both

395
00:18:12,940 --> 00:18:09,920
in the same page and let's just see what

396
00:18:15,250 --> 00:18:12,950
kind of reaction they have to the

397
00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:15,260
information from there I'm going to be

398
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:18,140
able to hit so many details you know

399
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:21,170
this it is a complicated case but but it

400
00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:22,490
can be summed up pretty pretty

401
00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:24,980
succinctly I mean Frank Scully really is

402
00:18:29,770 --> 00:18:27,980
that the that the core of the original

403
00:18:32,020 --> 00:18:29,780
dissemination of this particular

404
00:18:33,550 --> 00:18:32,030
incident so you know everything else is

405
00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:33,560
kind of attendant to that and it's

406
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:36,260
important if it's pre Scully and and and

407
00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:38,330
looking back at the scholarly article

408
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:39,800
that appeared in The Daily Variety in

409
00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:42,650
October of 1949 he talks about two UFO

410
00:18:47,050 --> 00:18:44,440
crashes neither one of them in Aztec

411
00:18:50,170 --> 00:18:47,060
mm-hmm he talks about them wanting to

412
00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:50,180
see I think at the Sahara Desert and

413
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:53,270
what Sahara Desert and one in the Mojave

414
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:55,610
Desert the one in Africa one in the

415
00:18:59,770 --> 00:18:58,010
United States and it's very

416
00:19:01,900 --> 00:18:59,780
tongue-in-cheek he doesn't seem to think

417
00:19:03,550 --> 00:19:01,910
there's anything to it but he's sort of

418
00:19:05,140 --> 00:19:03,560
responding to the idea that there's some

419
00:19:07,540 --> 00:19:05,150
kind of a movie being made and he's

420
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:07,550
being left out of the loop here and he's

421
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:09,320
plugging himself back into the loop and

422
00:19:14,620 --> 00:19:11,810
from that point on he gets more deeply

423
00:19:16,540 --> 00:19:14,630
involved in the Aztec case I I don't

424
00:19:18,250 --> 00:19:16,550
agree with that after reading it I'd

425
00:19:21,070 --> 00:19:18,260
like you to go back Kevin and reread

426
00:19:23,170 --> 00:19:21,080
Scully the the first column I'd like you

427
00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:23,180
to reread his book and then reread ours

428
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:25,340
I and with a highlighter I'll supply

429
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:29,120
another copy and go back to Silas Newton

430
00:19:33,130 --> 00:19:31,250
and Leo Gabe our by the way is how you

431
00:19:35,980 --> 00:19:33,140
say that I just had dinner with his

432
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:35,990
daughters he got dragged into the Newton

433
00:19:40,090 --> 00:19:37,430
thing and there's really no guess

434
00:19:43,060 --> 00:19:40,100
there's there's no defending Silas

435
00:19:46,990 --> 00:19:43,070
Newton he was a mover and a shaker from

436
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:47,000
the roaring 20s prior to the to the

437
00:19:52,390 --> 00:19:50,330
stock market crash and and further on I

438
00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:52,400
I do take exception to the fact that

439
00:19:57,910 --> 00:19:55,420
you'd count a hundred and forty liens

440
00:19:59,290 --> 00:19:57,920
lawsuits and liens against him by the

441
00:20:01,960 --> 00:19:59,300
time he was dead

442
00:20:04,330 --> 00:20:01,970
Warren and I although we are not done we

443
00:20:06,220 --> 00:20:04,340
found one small lien against them and

444
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:06,230
Arizona yeah I don't know where you come

445
00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:10,850
up with 140 I think it was in KP canes

446
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:13,160
are to call her know one of the

447
00:20:18,910 --> 00:20:15,770
following articles on this the only time

448
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:18,920
it's mentioned 140 is by dole more in

449
00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:21,530
his new helm well there you go

450
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:24,140
we sent a copy sent a copy Dallas Scully

451
00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:26,930
the copy and her letters and transcripts

452
00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:28,820
with it are sitting at the University of

453
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:32,270
Wyoming in Laramie and Holly did did new

454
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:34,850
Newton in D power or whatever the hell

455
00:20:40,930 --> 00:20:37,610
his name was did they stand trial in

456
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:40,940
Colorado for fraud Newton and gave our

457
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:42,140
did yes yes

458
00:20:46,930 --> 00:20:44,330
Ben were they convicted they're not

459
00:20:50,050 --> 00:20:46,940
convicted in a civil court where they

460
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:50,060
don't word on the on the Denver Post is

461
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:52,730
SIA scientist convicted of fraud and

462
00:20:59,410 --> 00:20:55,850
that was redacted two days later they

463
00:21:01,480 --> 00:20:59,420
said whoops no no no conviction of fraud

464
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:01,490
when it's a civil case they had a

465
00:21:06,550 --> 00:21:04,310
judgment awarded against them yes now

466
00:21:10,210 --> 00:21:06,560
there you go well but know what's backup

467
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,220
now Kevin let's be fair no I'm tired of

468
00:21:15,130 --> 00:21:12,080
this nonsense this case is on all the

469
00:21:17,830 --> 00:21:15,140
wait a minute you're describing the book

470
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:17,840
at my book okay guys calm down a little

471
00:21:22,810 --> 00:21:21,290
bit here you know it would have helped

472
00:21:25,870 --> 00:21:22,820
immensely to have an index in the book

473
00:21:27,940 --> 00:21:25,880
by the way but I would like to know

474
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:27,950
where where you talk about begin to talk

475
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:30,650
about manuals and of all first mentions

476
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:32,480
on page three can we can we finish my

477
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:34,970
question we go to Quebec and my question

478
00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:37,910
you're claiming as though it's fact that

479
00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:40,790
Newton had a hundred and forty liens

480
00:21:48,010 --> 00:21:44,120
against him and lawsuits by the time he

481
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:48,020
died we have found one bill more makes

482
00:21:55,150 --> 00:21:51,170
that statement in his 1989 or whatever

483
00:21:57,940 --> 00:21:55,160
MUFON paper he said information

484
00:22:00,100 --> 00:21:57,950
okay that's fine he sent a copy of that

485
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,110
to Alice Scully that copy and her

486
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:02,240
letters are on file at the University of

487
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:04,730
Wyoming in Laramie where she calls his

488
00:22:10,210 --> 00:22:07,730
entire report laughable that was in 89

489
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:10,220
the year that Moore came forward and did

490
00:22:17,740 --> 00:22:17,110
interesting the timing there what I'm

491
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:17,750
saying Kevin

492
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:18,890
you know we got to be careful what we

493
00:22:24,730 --> 00:22:22,130
close is fact Kevin Morris paper was

494
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:24,740
laughable let's continue with this

495
00:22:28,990 --> 00:22:26,780
discussion in our next segment I think

496
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:29,000
of Bill Moore it came out in 89 and this

497
00:22:33,460 --> 00:22:31,850
I have to break it okay okay all right

498
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:33,470
the book is called the Aztec incident

499
00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:36,410
and the great debate with Scott Ramsey

500
00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:38,150
and Kevin Randall with gene and Chris

501
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:40,990
you're in there again

502
00:22:54,999 --> 00:22:51,820
the GC and radio network providing the

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world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

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[Music]

599
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:03,809
hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

600
00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:06,690
in to the para cast let me tell you what

601
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:09,059
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

602
00:27:15,950 --> 00:27:12,570
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

603
00:27:17,239 --> 00:27:15,960
that George snoring on the power cast

604
00:27:21,159 --> 00:27:17,249
with Gene and Chris we have Kevin

605
00:27:24,139 --> 00:27:21,169
Randall and Scott Ramsay debating the

606
00:27:26,029 --> 00:27:24,149
Aztec case you were about to say

607
00:27:27,919 --> 00:27:26,039
something further on this before we

608
00:27:30,649 --> 00:27:27,929
progress with further responses from

609
00:27:32,269 --> 00:27:30,659
Scott and Kevin Chris I just find it

610
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:32,279
interesting that Gomorrah should make

611
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:35,129
this claim the same year that he also

612
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:38,609
did his famous Mia culpa and you know

613
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:41,340
announced to everyone at the MUFON

614
00:27:48,169 --> 00:27:44,129
symposium that he had been part of a

615
00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:48,179
disinformation campaign and I mean that

616
00:27:52,009 --> 00:27:50,609
we've done whole shows practically on

617
00:27:54,259 --> 00:27:52,019
that subject so we can't obviously

618
00:27:57,379 --> 00:27:54,269
digress there but I'm just pointing out

619
00:27:59,450 --> 00:27:57,389
that that this this is pretty this is a

620
00:28:01,119 --> 00:27:59,460
very interesting crucial kind of

621
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:01,129
quincunx here that we have going on

622
00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:03,210
Kevin what do you think of that I mean

623
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:04,950
there's there should we have reasons to

624
00:28:09,229 --> 00:28:07,679
be suspicious of that there well of

625
00:28:10,580 --> 00:28:09,239
course when Bill Maher says something we

626
00:28:12,970 --> 00:28:10,590
need to be suspicious of it

627
00:28:15,769 --> 00:28:12,980
bill Moore himself cut his own throat in

628
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:15,779
something was July of 1989 at the MUFON

629
00:28:22,220 --> 00:28:18,809
conference no question about it there is

630
00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:22,230
other documentation that that Newton at

631
00:28:30,979 --> 00:28:26,609
least was involved in a number of scams

632
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:30,989
and what he would do is when he was when

633
00:28:35,239 --> 00:28:33,659
he was caught in one of these scams he'd

634
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:35,249
pay off the people and all the charges

635
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:36,450
would be dropped and he'd go on to the

636
00:28:42,139 --> 00:28:39,570
next one Newton is not a credible source

637
00:28:44,899 --> 00:28:42,149
he's no more credible than Bill Moria

638
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:44,909
and this is where the story originates

639
00:28:51,019 --> 00:28:48,960
is with Silas Newton talking to it

640
00:28:52,879 --> 00:28:51,029
doesn't originate with me with Silas

641
00:28:56,299 --> 00:28:52,889
Newton I talk about Newton in the book I

642
00:28:57,950 --> 00:28:56,309
talk about game over in the book if I

643
00:29:01,940 --> 00:28:57,960
had looked into his Kevin really years

644
00:29:03,859 --> 00:29:01,950
ago the October 87 and couldn't find

645
00:29:06,859 --> 00:29:03,869
anybody in the area that knew anything

646
00:29:08,509 --> 00:29:06,869
about it and everything rested back on

647
00:29:11,060 --> 00:29:08,519
Scully's book I would have been done

648
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:11,070
with this by 88 but you

649
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:13,049
you know I can I can remove those guys

650
00:29:17,779 --> 00:29:14,970
with a scalpel right out of the story

651
00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:17,789
just take Gabe hour and and move them

652
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:19,740
out and there's still a story here with

653
00:29:24,409 --> 00:29:21,929
locals and there's locals who said

654
00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:24,419
nothing happened oh you go through that

655
00:29:30,379 --> 00:29:28,169
in the book I talk about that no I 33%

656
00:29:33,019 --> 00:29:30,389
of people in the town basically and it's

657
00:29:35,659 --> 00:29:33,029
pretty accurate say are you kidding me

658
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:35,669
33 percent in the town say could care

659
00:29:39,740 --> 00:29:37,529
less than 33 percent of the town

660
00:29:41,629 --> 00:29:39,750
including local sheriff's and a judge

661
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:41,639
say of course something happening out

662
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:43,500
there we don't know what it was in the

663
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:45,690
end a man who sheriff at the time says

664
00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:46,919
nothing happened the editor of the

665
00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:48,360
newspaper at the time said nothing

666
00:29:55,419 --> 00:29:50,700
happened no no no no you have no to have

667
00:30:00,639 --> 00:29:55,429
no documentation that precedes Newton

668
00:30:04,580 --> 00:30:00,649
Scully and give our yes you do what

669
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:04,590
you've had people like Doug Noland and

670
00:30:08,899 --> 00:30:07,289
when did he when did he first speak well

671
00:30:11,509 --> 00:30:08,909
it's windy when was the first interview

672
00:30:14,389 --> 00:30:11,519
I I can give you the answer that I don't

673
00:30:16,610 --> 00:30:14,399
have it at my fingertips well it was in

674
00:30:18,950 --> 00:30:16,620
the 1990s wasn't it yeah that precise

675
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:18,960
yeah give us a ballpark yeah yeah it was

676
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:21,690
definitely midnight and my point simply

677
00:30:26,830 --> 00:30:24,450
is this you hear nothing about Aztec

678
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:26,840
yeah that's almost 50 years later that's

679
00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:30,750
so so no one doesn't count because he he

680
00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:32,340
doesn't have a letter he doesn't have a

681
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:35,220
diary doesn't anything dated from 1948

682
00:30:39,110 --> 00:30:37,320
to say this this event happened you have

683
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:39,120
what he was saying in the mid-1990s

684
00:30:44,950 --> 00:30:42,210
about events back in 1948 it's the same

685
00:30:47,749 --> 00:30:44,960
problem I've been chasing with the pre

686
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:47,759
Kenneth Arnold sightings from 1947

687
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:49,860
there's an awful lot of people said yes

688
00:30:55,399 --> 00:30:51,690
I saw something before Kenneth Arnold

689
00:30:57,169 --> 00:30:55,409
but I can't document any of it so it's

690
00:30:58,999 --> 00:30:57,179
the same sort of thing Nolan Nolan too

691
00:31:01,369 --> 00:30:59,009
says yes I was there but he doesn't say

692
00:31:04,249 --> 00:31:01,379
it until many many years later let me

693
00:31:07,490 --> 00:31:04,259
ask you a question here guys was he even

694
00:31:12,019 --> 00:31:07,500
asked about this case prior to the 1990s

695
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,029
I I can't answer that question the

696
00:31:18,529 --> 00:31:13,980
answer the question is in the three-hour

697
00:31:22,909 --> 00:31:18,539
tapes but if I didn't I think and please

698
00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:22,919
note the qualification I think that what

699
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:24,990
happened was Nolan

700
00:31:30,170 --> 00:31:27,840
got ahold of Steinman williams diamond

701
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,180
who wrote the UFO crash at Aztec and

702
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:32,820
talked to him about it and Steinman and

703
00:31:39,260 --> 00:31:35,910
Lear got together in some fashion and

704
00:31:42,850 --> 00:31:39,270
that was house clear got onto Noland and

705
00:31:45,230 --> 00:31:42,860
then if you've got better information

706
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:45,240
this is what this is what I understand

707
00:31:50,270 --> 00:31:47,610
it at this time no that's I can

708
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:50,280
guarantee you that bill Steinman never

709
00:31:58,280 --> 00:31:55,050
talked to Doug Nolan Doug Nolan through

710
00:32:03,200 --> 00:31:58,290
Lear one two contacts diamond okay and

711
00:32:04,910 --> 00:32:03,210
by the time Steinem got that word from

712
00:32:07,370 --> 00:32:04,920
Lehrer their book the wendell stevens

713
00:32:11,330 --> 00:32:07,380
that bill Steinman's book was already

714
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:11,340
out it was one evening that bill

715
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:13,530
Steinman said there is a guy that came

716
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:16,020
forward while after our book was out you

717
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:18,330
may want to talk to him I subsequently

718
00:32:22,970 --> 00:32:20,490
after I talked to bill at least every

719
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:22,980
two weeks bill Styron Todd went back I

720
00:32:28,670 --> 00:32:25,770
said hi I will I will

721
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:28,680
did he know you know I just know his

722
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:30,570
book and had read his book and just

723
00:32:35,710 --> 00:32:32,640
thought I'd say hi okay I'll do that

724
00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:35,720
looking out for lunch about a year ago

725
00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:38,400
there is I went back and asked some

726
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:39,780
pointed questions about this I said

727
00:32:44,210 --> 00:32:41,570
though we've been talking for 21 years

728
00:32:46,610 --> 00:32:44,220
just so I'm clear on this and we went

729
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:46,620
through the same questions and Lear and

730
00:32:51,620 --> 00:32:48,690
Doug Noland certainly had a relationship

731
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,630
I mean Doug ran the assay hold the assay

732
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:53,460
company outside of Vegas that did the

733
00:33:00,350 --> 00:32:56,370
assay for gone now john Lear's

734
00:33:02,090 --> 00:33:00,360
gold mines well what I mean that right

735
00:33:05,050 --> 00:33:02,100
there speaks volumes we have Bill Moore

736
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:05,060
we have John Lear I mean nefarious

737
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:09,090
disinformation agents you know 101 I

738
00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:12,950
mean we can't rely on you know I mean

739
00:33:17,950 --> 00:33:15,620
let's look at what what Lear is done

740
00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:17,960
through the years he presented by

741
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:21,830
hypothesis in 87 I'd be very careful

742
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:24,960
Lear has one huge legal staff so be very

743
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:28,650
careful I'm not I'm dating like what is

744
00:33:32,270 --> 00:33:30,810
what I've already stated before on this

745
00:33:34,580 --> 00:33:32,280
show okay all right all right I know

746
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:34,590
they're hyper blew up on somebody not

747
00:33:39,230 --> 00:33:37,010
too long ago he could go down the line

748
00:33:41,889 --> 00:33:39,240
you know I mean I

749
00:33:45,710 --> 00:33:41,899
respect his service to his country I

750
00:33:48,139 --> 00:33:45,720
question it on some level but I think

751
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:48,149
Aztec really needs that that that

752
00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:51,120
basement bedrock kind of Roswell sort of

753
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:55,080
of smoking gun piece of evidence piece

754
00:34:01,899 --> 00:33:57,600
of documentation something that that

755
00:34:05,630 --> 00:34:01,909
that predates the Scully the Scully I

756
00:34:08,570 --> 00:34:05,640
mean I know yesterday I mean we're how

757
00:34:10,070 --> 00:34:08,580
do you replace that what we're talking

758
00:34:11,750 --> 00:34:10,080
about one little segment of the book I

759
00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:11,760
mean we go on

760
00:34:17,180 --> 00:34:13,740
there's plenty there's a sting operation

761
00:34:20,180 --> 00:34:17,190
set up in downtown Denver to retrieve

762
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:20,190
black-and-white photos I don't know if

763
00:34:23,450 --> 00:34:21,810
the government would really go that far

764
00:34:26,180 --> 00:34:23,460
if they thought the Aztec story was a

765
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:26,190
hopes nobody talks about that we do we

766
00:34:30,409 --> 00:34:27,480
talk about it in the book those are

767
00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:30,419
genuine documents well yeah that's

768
00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:32,099
interesting I do recall that from the

769
00:34:36,530 --> 00:34:34,470
book why don't you give our you know

770
00:34:38,060 --> 00:34:36,540
folks in aren't as up to speed on Aztec

771
00:34:41,659 --> 00:34:38,070
a little thumbnail sketch on that that

772
00:34:44,839 --> 00:34:41,669
is that is a interesting kind of detail

773
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:44,849
well basically at the a device bar which

774
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:47,970
is was a bar next to the nellwyn Hotel

775
00:34:58,099 --> 00:34:53,839
in downtown Denver the FBI the Army CID

776
00:35:01,640 --> 00:34:58,109
Air Force OSI set up a sting bar a sting

777
00:35:04,790 --> 00:35:01,650
operation at the bar from a gentleman

778
00:35:07,130 --> 00:35:04,800
that is claiming to be with the

779
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:07,140
Baltimore paper who's there to buy

780
00:35:12,109 --> 00:35:09,720
black-and-white pictures of the US of a

781
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:12,119
flying saucer that was recovered in

782
00:35:17,510 --> 00:35:15,119
Aztec New Mexico specifically their

783
00:35:19,790 --> 00:35:17,520
words not mine okay and give us the

784
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:19,800
timeframe what what year over here let

785
00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:21,330
me pull the document we can read it

786
00:35:26,089 --> 00:35:23,339
instead of going for mine just give me a

787
00:35:28,940 --> 00:35:26,099
year and continue we both agree the

788
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:28,950
fifth nineteen fifty fifty okay right

789
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:30,690
right at the time Scully's book comes

790
00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:34,710
out give or take so the this thing

791
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:37,950
operation goes down the gentleman

792
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:40,290
supposedly from the Baltimore Sun Times

793
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:42,270
explains hey look guys I'm just a

794
00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:45,900
reporter doing my job somehow he is

795
00:35:50,870 --> 00:35:48,180
released the other gentleman claims I

796
00:35:53,090 --> 00:35:50,880
don't have photographs I was pulling his

797
00:35:56,420 --> 00:35:53,100
leg I was drunk they release him

798
00:35:59,150 --> 00:35:56,430
opposed idli all the follow-up documents

799
00:36:02,270 --> 00:35:59,160
as requested by Warren and I over a

800
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:02,280
two-year period Army CID kept at Fort

801
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:05,190
Belvoir the FBI not in Winchester

802
00:36:11,780 --> 00:36:07,490
Virginia but in downtown DC where the

803
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,790
Maine archives are Air Force OSI came

804
00:36:15,380 --> 00:36:13,440
back said we threw those records out

805
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:15,390
years ago so there's no follow-up

806
00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:17,910
documents about this mr. Kline from the

807
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:20,280
Baltimore paper I go to the Baltimore

808
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:22,710
paper with their lead in investigator

809
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:25,530
Jill Burris and they basically I know

810
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:27,240
Jean said to keep this short there is no

811
00:36:31,070 --> 00:36:29,130
client that ever worked for the paper

812
00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:31,080
back then and we're going to get the

813
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:33,180
second part of that answered in our next

814
00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:35,250
segment we have Scott Ramsey Kevin

815
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:37,590
Randall debating Aztec New Mexico with

816
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:41,010
Jean and Chris you're in the period

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America's number one source for

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we are the gcn radio network is there a

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secret UFO agenda two strange creatures

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865
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866
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867
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nutrients it needs

868
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:10,750
did you know the u.s. government banned

869
00:39:14,190 --> 00:39:12,250
the hemp plant from growing in the

870
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United States and classified it as a

871
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Schedule one drug to hide it behind the

872
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marijuana plant people have been

873
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confused about this plan for over 80

874
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875
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and many still don't know

876
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so now you know him it's not marijuana

877
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and marijuana is not him they are

878
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different varieties of the same species

879
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hemp USA org wants the world to know

880
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these basic facts and to help people

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understand that him protein powder is

882
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884
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886
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890
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895
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dollars out of my pocket i discovered

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899
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900
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they prescribed you instead of Botox

901
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902
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904
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916
00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:04,410
[Music]

917
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:07,660
this is 37 the author of us on this

918
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:13,750
reading or listening to the podcast with

919
00:41:17,490 --> 00:41:15,370
Dean and Chris on the podcast we

920
00:41:19,980 --> 00:41:17,500
continue our wide-ranging discussion

921
00:41:23,070 --> 00:41:19,990
about the ins and outs the nooks and

922
00:41:26,190 --> 00:41:23,080
crannies of reports that a UFO crash at

923
00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:26,200
Aztec New Mexico arguing in favor of

924
00:41:30,810 --> 00:41:28,300
Scott Ramsey the book is the Aztec

925
00:41:33,450 --> 00:41:30,820
incident recovery and Hart Canyon

926
00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:33,460
arguing against is Kevin Randle I don't

927
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:35,710
expect we'll change minds here but we'll

928
00:41:41,850 --> 00:41:38,650
continue our discussions got it well we

929
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:41,860
were talking about the letter going back

930
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:44,890
and forth from Army CID and Air Force

931
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:47,920
OSI and the FBI on the sting operation

932
00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:51,610
at the Edelweiss bar I just don't think

933
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:54,310
and Kevin you-you-you had a great career

934
00:41:58,860 --> 00:41:56,410
and we appreciate that with the military

935
00:42:01,500 --> 00:41:58,870
I don't think that three of these

936
00:42:04,380 --> 00:42:01,510
organizations would have spent this much

937
00:42:07,050 --> 00:42:04,390
time on a non-event I just really don't

938
00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:07,060
and and it is clear I mean Scott you do

939
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,740
have to entertain the possibility that

940
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:11,440
Scully's account may have have stirred

941
00:42:15,570 --> 00:42:13,720
you know the aspirations of some

942
00:42:19,350 --> 00:42:15,580
hoaxster to come forward and claim that

943
00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:19,360
he had evidence to support the stories I

944
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:23,110
agree however how does a guy by the name

945
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:25,090
of Kline and by the way we did the

946
00:42:28,410 --> 00:42:26,530
search for those we spelled it every

947
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:28,420
every conceivable way you can spell

948
00:42:34,170 --> 00:42:28,930
Kline

949
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:34,180
posing as a reporter for the Baltimore

950
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:36,850
Sun in Denver slipped through

951
00:42:40,830 --> 00:42:38,530
everybody's fingers of the intelligence

952
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:40,840
community what kind of documentation did

953
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:43,330
he have that they went oh he's just a

954
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:45,910
reporter chasing a story let him go I I

955
00:42:50,010 --> 00:42:48,130
don't think that would happen well what

956
00:42:51,870 --> 00:42:50,020
do you think Kevin I mean this again

957
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:51,880
admittedly this did occur after the

958
00:42:56,850 --> 00:42:54,640
Scully account I mean we're talking

959
00:42:59,250 --> 00:42:56,860
about 1950 here was you're in the

960
00:43:02,700 --> 00:42:59,260
military or you have been you're served

961
00:43:05,250 --> 00:43:02,710
proudly I mean can you conceive of this

962
00:43:07,230 --> 00:43:05,260
being possible or I'm not sure what the

963
00:43:09,150 --> 00:43:07,240
argument here is well in other words

964
00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:09,160
he's saying if he can't find a reporter

965
00:43:12,780 --> 00:43:10,870
named Klein at the Baltimore Sun perhaps

966
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:12,790
that was some sort of ring or sent in by

967
00:43:17,250 --> 00:43:14,530
the intelligence services to gather

968
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:17,260
additional data and to maybe

969
00:43:20,819 --> 00:43:18,540
kind of do some damage control

970
00:43:23,790 --> 00:43:20,829
potentially in their eyes I mean if that

971
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:23,800
is that a logical you know possibility

972
00:43:28,890 --> 00:43:25,690
there's all sorts of possibilities here

973
00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:28,900
in this well Scott what Scott saying is

974
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:30,280
the very fact that they appear to be

975
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:32,770
interested and they may have set up a

976
00:43:38,730 --> 00:43:34,990
ringer I mean they wouldn't do that just

977
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:38,740
over somebody responding to an innocuous

978
00:43:44,819 --> 00:43:41,050
joking account you can you can take a

979
00:43:47,310 --> 00:43:44,829
look at the mj-12 documents and how the

980
00:43:50,220 --> 00:43:47,320
government responded to the first claims

981
00:43:52,740 --> 00:43:50,230
of those documents right away looking to

982
00:43:54,060 --> 00:43:52,750
make sure they cut that legitimately

983
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:54,070
classified material hadn't been

984
00:43:58,079 --> 00:43:54,970
compromised

985
00:43:59,520 --> 00:43:58,089
which is a resettlement claim we're

986
00:44:01,319 --> 00:43:59,530
talking about Frank Scully writing an

987
00:44:03,780 --> 00:44:01,329
article versus you know real government

988
00:44:06,300 --> 00:44:03,790
document supposedly I mean there's a big

989
00:44:08,060 --> 00:44:06,310
difference there so we have no

990
00:44:11,849 --> 00:44:08,070
government document about this

991
00:44:14,490 --> 00:44:11,859
investigation in Denver well we do yeah

992
00:44:16,609 --> 00:44:14,500
it's not like you know as a

993
00:44:19,020 --> 00:44:16,619
whistleblower you know smoking gun

994
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:19,030
Snowden type you know laying a bunch of

995
00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:20,410
WikiLeaks laying a bunch of documents

996
00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:23,470
out for people to uh you know to go over

997
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:24,550
it's different

998
00:44:29,250 --> 00:44:27,040
Scott's dug this stuff up I mean this is

999
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,260
procedural stuff that he's gotten much

1000
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:31,599
to his credit you know he's a real good

1001
00:44:34,859 --> 00:44:33,520
researcher oh there's no question that

1002
00:44:36,750 --> 00:44:34,869
some of the documents that he's

1003
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:36,760
published in his book or were nice to

1004
00:44:40,620 --> 00:44:38,290
see for the first time and give us some

1005
00:44:43,710 --> 00:44:40,630
some insight I guess the question is do

1006
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:43,720
we have is there documentation I haven't

1007
00:44:46,050 --> 00:44:44,710
looked at the book for a while I'm

1008
00:44:47,849 --> 00:44:46,060
holding it in my hand now trying to

1009
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:47,859
trying to find bullets it's all the

1010
00:44:50,849 --> 00:44:49,210
priest collie stuff it's really

1011
00:44:53,339 --> 00:44:50,859
important I think Scott would agree and

1012
00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:53,349
I'm sure he is beaten more than a few

1013
00:44:58,620 --> 00:44:56,710
Chico bushes around the aztec area still

1014
00:45:01,170 --> 00:44:58,630
find it two hundred and sixty seven

1015
00:45:04,349 --> 00:45:01,180
trips as of March so yeah after a little

1016
00:45:06,540 --> 00:45:04,359
bit and boy I tell you there's a lot of

1017
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:06,550
places in in the Four Corners area that

1018
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:08,710
I'd rather be than as to especially if I

1019
00:45:12,089 --> 00:45:11,470
got cut short and ended up in the hit

1020
00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:12,099
Korea

1021
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:14,680
I guess the germane question for me is

1022
00:45:18,059 --> 00:45:16,690
looking at the documents do we have

1023
00:45:19,470 --> 00:45:18,069
government documents and this is the

1024
00:45:22,650 --> 00:45:19,480
part I don't quite understand we have

1025
00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:22,660
government documents saying that they

1026
00:45:27,450 --> 00:45:25,480
investigated this guy this reporter from

1027
00:45:29,490 --> 00:45:27,460
Baltimore did they investigate this guy

1028
00:45:30,930 --> 00:45:29,500
do we a document saying that or is it

1029
00:45:33,359 --> 00:45:30,940
just a report from Scully's

1030
00:45:34,859 --> 00:45:33,369
this all took place well Scully doesn't

1031
00:45:37,050 --> 00:45:34,869
even know this took place there's no

1032
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:37,060
mention of this and Chris thanks for

1033
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:38,650
giving me credit for this document but I

1034
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,510
wasn't going to retrieved I believe it

1035
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:42,640
was dr. Bruce Maccabee and Frank Warren

1036
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:46,810
the Bruce Maccabee supplied you with

1037
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:49,930
those documents I think he supplied him

1038
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:52,089
to Warren after all the years he was

1039
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:54,730
going through the FBI files and I'd have

1040
00:45:58,559 --> 00:45:56,290
to look I'd have to look at the tab on

1041
00:46:00,900 --> 00:45:58,569
this and let other than chain here it's

1042
00:46:02,670 --> 00:46:00,910
just it just sparkles but the question

1043
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:02,680
is the question is do we have documents

1044
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:04,450
about an investigation government

1045
00:46:08,339 --> 00:46:05,920
documents about the investigation in

1046
00:46:10,890 --> 00:46:08,349
Denver or is this just a story being

1047
00:46:13,170 --> 00:46:10,900
told by others about this do we have

1048
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:13,180
documents the document is published in

1049
00:46:17,490 --> 00:46:16,030
the book it's it's a letter you'll find

1050
00:46:19,470 --> 00:46:17,500
it quicker than I will right now I got

1051
00:46:21,569 --> 00:46:19,480
so many things dog-eared and post e

1052
00:46:23,130 --> 00:46:21,579
noted but if you have a problem with it

1053
00:46:25,230 --> 00:46:23,140
that would probably be a great round to

1054
00:46:26,730 --> 00:46:25,240
show right the answer your question

1055
00:46:29,309 --> 00:46:26,740
Kevin yeah it's it's a legitimate

1056
00:46:31,290 --> 00:46:29,319
document describing the events in Denver

1057
00:46:34,099 --> 00:46:31,300
yeah and it come it comes from a

1058
00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:34,109
government source mm-hmm okay

1059
00:46:39,809 --> 00:46:37,240
yes and again then we tried to follow up

1060
00:46:42,930 --> 00:46:39,819
with army CID in Fort Belvoir and they

1061
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:42,940
said yeah threw him out sorry it is

1062
00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:48,910
dated 9 October 1950 it was from October

1063
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:52,030
9th 1950 from headquarters United States

1064
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:54,880
Air Force Washington a purchase of

1065
00:47:03,720 --> 00:46:56,970
flying saucer photographs

1066
00:47:05,250 --> 00:47:03,730
it was unclassified 9 December 1973 if

1067
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:05,260
you have the book it's in the chapter

1068
00:47:14,670 --> 00:47:08,890
George Kohler and the airforce boys page

1069
00:47:18,329 --> 00:47:14,680
179 well Scott does it refer to the

1070
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:18,339
source of these supposed photographs and

1071
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:19,750
and and what were their claims about

1072
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:22,690
them I mean hello Delta V McLaughlin

1073
00:47:29,910 --> 00:47:27,760
Melvin hotel Denver Colorado he's

1074
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:29,920
willing to sell the photographs I'm

1075
00:47:35,569 --> 00:47:32,640
going to do this real quickly $1,500

1076
00:47:42,730 --> 00:47:35,579
until a man named what's not

1077
00:47:48,410 --> 00:47:42,740
I'll read exactly their fifth army g2

1078
00:47:51,590 --> 00:47:48,420
flying saucer the he photographed this

1079
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:51,600
saucer which crashed near Aztec New

1080
00:48:00,200 --> 00:47:56,940
Mexico it's redacted on and on and on

1081
00:48:03,260 --> 00:48:00,210
well wait a minute what's redacted Aztec

1082
00:48:06,110 --> 00:48:03,270
New Mexico's we don't know why it's

1083
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:06,120
names its others elastic is named in the

1084
00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:09,690
document tenure as second document Wow

1085
00:48:14,030 --> 00:48:12,480
okay and then it says on October 2nd was

1086
00:48:16,310 --> 00:48:14,040
interviewed at the 5th army regional

1087
00:48:19,180 --> 00:48:16,320
office in Denver he then denied any

1088
00:48:23,450 --> 00:48:19,190
knowledge of the flying saucer episode

1089
00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:23,460
will read the rest okay I will be

1090
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:26,790
regional office commented that in spite

1091
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:29,610
of his denials his manner indicated that

1092
00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:32,370
he had some knowledge of the incident or

1093
00:48:37,970 --> 00:48:35,220
may have taken pictures of it there's a

1094
00:48:38,980 --> 00:48:37,980
some question in their mind yes pictures

1095
00:48:46,070 --> 00:48:38,990
of it

1096
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:46,080
the a chief of staff g2 v army advised

1097
00:48:50,810 --> 00:48:48,810
it had been reported that the OSI Kansas

1098
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:50,820
City Missouri is investigating the

1099
00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:53,280
pertinent incident and has requested

1100
00:48:58,580 --> 00:48:55,920
they be furnished copy of report

1101
00:49:00,080 --> 00:48:58,590
pertaining thereto that the offices also

1102
00:49:01,910 --> 00:49:00,090
requested any additional information

1103
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:01,920
regarding this or other similar

1104
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:04,170
sightings which may come to the

1105
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:05,880
attention of Oz I within the fifth army

1106
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:08,790
area it sounds like they're actually

1107
00:49:13,220 --> 00:49:11,310
referring to other paperwork well it we

1108
00:49:16,250 --> 00:49:13,230
know there were three involved three

1109
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:16,260
other organ at what I guess what struck

1110
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:20,930
us is that Klein doesn't exist

1111
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:23,910
LD McLaughlin is the gentleman offering

1112
00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:28,640
the photos for sale so I mean it's it's

1113
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:31,590
my life you have down there that bit of

1114
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:33,690
a reporter named so you know something

1115
00:49:39,410 --> 00:49:36,480
Klein from the Baltimore Sun was there

1116
00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:39,420
and you can't find any any sort of trace

1117
00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:42,510
of him obviously if you had the one of

1118
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:44,520
the distinctive the Baltimore since you

1119
00:49:48,050 --> 00:49:46,410
know investigative reporters helping you

1120
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:48,060
investigate the Baltimore Sun you should

1121
00:49:52,070 --> 00:49:50,760
be able to find decline based on all the

1122
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,080
different spellings that you tried so

1123
00:49:57,350 --> 00:49:55,680
that to me is very very intriguing

1124
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,360
and the fact that I've just been made

1125
00:50:02,180 --> 00:49:59,280
aware that there's other documentation

1126
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:02,190
out there that refers to some sort of

1127
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:05,760
government interest in the scenario but

1128
00:50:10,250 --> 00:50:07,920
I think that that's that's cool but it's

1129
00:50:14,300 --> 00:50:10,260
all post Scully I still keep saying that

1130
00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:14,310
yes there was that was going to be my

1131
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:15,830
question when discolours book come out

1132
00:50:22,310 --> 00:50:18,720
September 17th released from Henry Holt

1133
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:22,320
& Company 1950 this is what two three

1134
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:26,720
let's get out it came out in 49 okay I'm

1135
00:50:34,490 --> 00:50:30,060
pretty much simultaneously I like that

1136
00:50:35,870 --> 00:50:34,500
yeah but yeah there's a lot of if your

1137
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:35,880
show is four hours we could probably

1138
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:38,700
fill it up but all of it is

1139
00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:39,690
circumstantial

1140
00:50:44,150 --> 00:50:42,390
we can't get a follow-up document from

1141
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:44,160
the Air Force OSI we can't get a

1142
00:50:50,060 --> 00:50:47,040
follow-up article or any paperwork from

1143
00:50:53,090 --> 00:50:50,070
Army CID so that leaves you hanging but

1144
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:53,100
the interesting part is again and I go

1145
00:50:58,550 --> 00:50:55,170
back to what I said earlier Kevin in

1146
00:51:01,310 --> 00:50:58,560
October 87 if this thing went on and on

1147
00:51:02,690 --> 00:51:01,320
and and nobody in town everybody had

1148
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:02,700
laughed me out and called me the town

1149
00:51:07,790 --> 00:51:05,640
drunk I'd be done by 88 there are bits

1150
00:51:10,220 --> 00:51:07,800
and fragments and pieces that keep this

1151
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:10,230
case coin and without Scully without

1152
00:51:14,210 --> 00:51:12,330
Gabe our and we have to explore that

1153
00:51:16,670 --> 00:51:14,220
further and get Kevin's questions

1154
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:16,680
answered and any time you have a comment

1155
00:51:21,980 --> 00:51:18,720
or a question about the show write us

1156
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:21,990
news at the power cast com once again

1157
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:26,010
that's news at the Peres kasa.com as we

1158
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,170
explore the Aztec incident in this great

1159
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:30,480
debate with Scott Ramsay and Kevin

1160
00:51:37,569 --> 00:51:32,730
Randall with gene and Chris you're in

1161
00:51:44,029 --> 00:51:41,359
are you tired of searching for a great

1162
00:51:47,989 --> 00:51:44,039
talk radio the more important search

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through overall we are the GCM radio

1164
00:51:53,029 --> 00:51:51,059
network hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd

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00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:53,039
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1166
00:51:56,509 --> 00:51:54,450
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1178
00:52:20,479 --> 00:52:18,059
GC and live.com again that's juicy and

1179
00:52:22,190 --> 00:52:20,489
live.com hi this is Ted Anderson have

1180
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1181
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investment advisors won't talk about

1182
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1183
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1986 yet the financial industry won't

1184
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1185
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attire men call this outperform paper

1186
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1197
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1200
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1201
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1202
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1203
00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:00,040
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1204
00:54:12,430 --> 00:54:04,360
standard of paranormal radio and now

1205
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:12,440
here's Jane Steinberg oh this is getting

1206
00:54:16,750 --> 00:54:14,570
more and more fascinating by the second

1207
00:54:19,150 --> 00:54:16,760
this is the kind of show where Chris and

1208
00:54:20,980 --> 00:54:19,160
I can Kyle just let these guys talk but

1209
00:54:22,410 --> 00:54:20,990
there's so many things to try to figure

1210
00:54:25,900 --> 00:54:22,420
out we're trying to piece together

1211
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:25,910
reports about a possible UFO crash that

1212
00:54:29,590 --> 00:54:29,090
occurred over 60 years ago that's not

1213
00:54:32,590 --> 00:54:29,600
easy

1214
00:54:35,620 --> 00:54:32,600
Kevin Randall Scott Ramsey joining us

1215
00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:35,630
the book is the Aztec incident that's

1216
00:54:41,770 --> 00:54:39,470
how it goes Kevin yes you have a

1217
00:54:44,650 --> 00:54:41,780
response before we continue no no no I

1218
00:54:47,020 --> 00:54:44,660
was my question to Scott had been when

1219
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:47,030
did Scully's book come out and he said

1220
00:54:53,230 --> 00:54:50,210
September of 1950 this event took place

1221
00:54:56,980 --> 00:54:53,240
a few weeks later it's interesting

1222
00:55:00,580 --> 00:54:56,990
interesting but it doesn't it didn't

1223
00:55:02,260 --> 00:55:00,590
transpire prior to scholars both being

1224
00:55:04,030 --> 00:55:02,270
released so you've you've got up you've

1225
00:55:06,130 --> 00:55:04,040
got a bit of a problem there I've been

1226
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:06,140
trying to go through the martin sandoval

1227
00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:08,450
stuff which we talked about earlier and

1228
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:13,250
I cannot find and Scott I've read tried

1229
00:55:16,510 --> 00:55:15,050
to read and granted you know we're

1230
00:55:19,630 --> 00:55:16,520
having these conversations I'm trying to

1231
00:55:24,790 --> 00:55:19,640
listen I'm trying to read sir but I do

1232
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:24,800
not I do not understand your claim oh I

1233
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:27,440
don't mean to phrase it that way that's

1234
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:32,690
very on my part but on Martin sand of

1235
00:55:37,930 --> 00:55:36,410
all I don't see easily and as I said you

1236
00:55:40,690 --> 00:55:37,940
know I'm trying to do all of this at the

1237
00:55:44,970 --> 00:55:40,700
same time it still reads to me as if

1238
00:55:47,980 --> 00:55:44,980
sand of all had been had been spoken to

1239
00:55:50,380 --> 00:55:47,990
during it in the course of the way this

1240
00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:50,390
is written and I might wait I think the

1241
00:55:56,950 --> 00:55:53,710
first chapter we're telling the story of

1242
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,960
what has transpired what we found in the

1243
00:56:01,570 --> 00:55:58,880
case we bring in the different place

1244
00:56:03,580 --> 00:56:01,580
then after that we go into the you know

1245
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:03,590
the next chapter is about Frank Scully

1246
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:07,610
and on and on sand of all it's Manuel

1247
00:56:12,650 --> 00:56:10,170
Sandoval he's I mentioned

1248
00:56:14,930 --> 00:56:12,660
you said Martin but that's okay I find

1249
00:56:16,430 --> 00:56:14,940
interesting phone was ringing I thought

1250
00:56:19,370 --> 00:56:16,440
it was a guy a friend of mine named

1251
00:56:21,230 --> 00:56:19,380
Martin who okay that's why there there's

1252
00:56:23,930 --> 00:56:21,240
actually a Martin sand of all in Cuba

1253
00:56:26,599 --> 00:56:23,940
there they're all related that all the

1254
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:26,609
Sandoval's I have this on disk I can

1255
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:28,590
pull it up highlight it and email it to

1256
00:56:33,650 --> 00:56:31,080
you after tonight but it's the Johnny

1257
00:56:35,540 --> 00:56:33,660
Hernandez interview is where I go into

1258
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:35,550
detail about it in the book

1259
00:56:41,630 --> 00:56:39,270
yes in deep in your book and just he

1260
00:56:44,150 --> 00:56:41,640
shows up where I I don't know Kevin I

1261
00:56:45,890 --> 00:56:44,160
got so many things I basically post you

1262
00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:45,900
noted things that I was taking exception

1263
00:56:51,710 --> 00:56:49,500
to to what you said night yeah okay well

1264
00:56:54,830 --> 00:56:51,720
it like I said we in reading the first

1265
00:56:58,180 --> 00:56:54,840
chapter and I understand your narrative

1266
00:57:00,980 --> 00:56:58,190
construction but it seems to be

1267
00:57:03,050 --> 00:57:00,990
suggested here and again it's a

1268
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:03,060
suggestion that that sand of all had

1269
00:57:09,380 --> 00:57:06,180
been interviewed at some time because it

1270
00:57:10,790 --> 00:57:09,390
seems seems as if he's being quoted and

1271
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:10,800
let me see what I was looking for a

1272
00:57:14,900 --> 00:57:13,650
thing Doug asked what should we do the

1273
00:57:17,089 --> 00:57:14,910
young officer whom we have since

1274
00:57:19,010 --> 00:57:17,099
identified his manual Sandoval explained

1275
00:57:21,890 --> 00:57:19,020
that he was from the town of Cuba

1276
00:57:24,050 --> 00:57:21,900
he told Doug that it finally led him to

1277
00:57:26,839 --> 00:57:24,060
the Hart Canyon Road so I mean the way

1278
00:57:28,460 --> 00:57:26,849
this is structured it seems as if you

1279
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:28,470
had interviewed sand of all and I'm not

1280
00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:30,690
the only one that has drawn that

1281
00:57:34,430 --> 00:57:32,550
conclusion however erroneous it might

1282
00:57:36,740 --> 00:57:34,440
have been and so I guess it's more of a

1283
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:36,750
constructional problem with the way the

1284
00:57:40,579 --> 00:57:39,810
book is written as opposed to anything

1285
00:57:43,220 --> 00:57:40,589
else

1286
00:57:46,670 --> 00:57:43,230
and our miss reading of what you had

1287
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:46,680
said mm-hmm Manuel Sandoval appears at

1288
00:57:52,190 --> 00:57:48,690
least twice if not three times in the

1289
00:57:54,470 --> 00:57:52,200
book well as I said that that seems to

1290
00:57:56,660 --> 00:57:54,480
be and I I get hesitate to use the term

1291
00:57:59,630 --> 00:57:56,670
misleading but it seems as if you had

1292
00:58:01,070 --> 00:57:59,640
interviewed well I can't go into detail

1293
00:58:02,870 --> 00:58:01,080
on that with my interview with Johnny

1294
00:58:04,849 --> 00:58:02,880
Hernandez you're asking me what page

1295
00:58:07,010 --> 00:58:04,859
it's on and like I said no I didn't say

1296
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:07,020
that right now but I can I can identify

1297
00:58:13,430 --> 00:58:09,210
that I just asked what chapter was in

1298
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:13,440
okay I don't know okay and and then did

1299
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:16,770
you get documentation that Doug Nolan

1300
00:58:23,180 --> 00:58:19,490
worked in that area at the proper time

1301
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:23,190
yes and tax records that he had

1302
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:26,010
had moved down there from Mancos

1303
00:58:29,420 --> 00:58:26,970
Colorado

1304
00:58:32,210 --> 00:58:29,430
the work and Mancos which isn't that far

1305
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:32,220
it's just the west side of you go north

1306
00:58:35,569 --> 00:58:34,170
into Colorado if you'd barrista hit

1307
00:58:38,210 --> 00:58:35,579
their angle if you go west you hit

1308
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:38,220
Mancos and Mancos have been hit pretty

1309
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:41,460
hard and until the dam project which we

1310
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:43,290
talk about later in the book there was

1311
00:58:46,670 --> 00:58:44,970
no work up there and he came down

1312
00:58:49,370 --> 00:58:46,680
because that was just the beginning of

1313
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:49,380
the the boom in the oil field but yeah

1314
00:58:54,339 --> 00:58:51,210
I've got tax records where he lived

1315
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:54,349
where he paid his property tax and

1316
00:58:59,690 --> 00:58:57,780
there's people alive in in Aztec that

1317
00:59:01,760 --> 00:58:59,700
knew knew him and remember him real well

1318
00:59:04,790 --> 00:59:01,770
keep in mind his daughter still lives in

1319
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:04,800
Farmington okay which is you know twenty

1320
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:07,890
one miles away and what his wife at this

1321
00:59:17,930 --> 00:59:13,410
Fred Reid guy yes who sent a letter to

1322
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:17,940
the Aztec newspaper in 1999 he said it

1323
00:59:21,050 --> 00:59:19,170
to Deborah Meier that's correct

1324
00:59:24,319 --> 00:59:21,060
well he'd gone out to the crash site but

1325
00:59:26,359 --> 00:59:24,329
he said they'd built stone Karen's

1326
00:59:29,809 --> 00:59:26,369
marking the path from the oil field road

1327
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:29,819
to the crash site yes that he would been

1328
00:59:36,319 --> 00:59:33,720
in the OSS in 1948 and that he had come

1329
00:59:39,950 --> 00:59:36,329
out of Roswell New Mexico out of the

1330
00:59:41,750 --> 00:59:39,960
Roswell base to I don't know I don't

1331
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:41,760
believe he ever mentioned that he came

1332
00:59:49,309 --> 00:59:46,170
out of Roswell but he writes in April

1333
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:49,319
1948 read military team was dispatched

1334
00:59:53,150 --> 00:59:51,630
for a crash cleanup as Fred would

1335
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:53,160
describe it to me years later in

1336
01:00:00,109 --> 00:59:57,690
nineteen years later in 1999 my only

1337
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:00,119
problem is this is I'm looking at Jerry

1338
01:00:04,849 --> 01:00:01,650
Clark's review of your book

1339
01:00:08,569 --> 01:00:04,859
mhm yeah so that's that's where I've got

1340
01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:08,579
that information but I got read seeming

1341
01:00:17,510 --> 01:00:11,310
to be not the most credible of sources

1342
01:00:20,329 --> 01:00:17,520
and why is that uh because of the letter

1343
01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:20,339
that he sent to might be sent to the

1344
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:23,369
Aztec newspaper on March 27 1999 Berlin

1345
01:00:26,180 --> 01:00:24,030
has the orig

1346
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:26,190
I had the original so you know what he

1347
01:00:30,410 --> 01:00:28,230
said yeah I know exactly what he says

1348
01:00:37,090 --> 01:00:30,420
yeah I don't believe he mentioned that

1349
01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:41,140
once again I'm reading from from Jerry's

1350
01:00:49,010 --> 01:00:45,420
review of the book and it says he writes

1351
01:00:51,980 --> 01:00:49,020
that in April 1948 reads military team

1352
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:51,990
was dispatched for a crash cleanup as

1353
01:00:55,700 --> 01:00:53,520
Fred would describe it to me years later

1354
01:00:58,610 --> 01:00:55,710
in 1999 I don't know who me isn't this

1355
01:01:00,590 --> 01:00:58,620
the cleanup at Hart Canyon site was to

1356
01:01:03,410 --> 01:01:00,600
be anything to be of anything tied to

1357
01:01:08,780 --> 01:01:03,420
the craft and to a subsequent Milliken

1358
01:01:10,940 --> 01:01:08,790
military presence at the site so okay

1359
01:01:13,100 --> 01:01:10,950
but fine well what's not credible about

1360
01:01:15,350 --> 01:01:13,110
Fred Reed everybody in the town of Aztec

1361
01:01:17,030 --> 01:01:15,360
that was around up until his death would

1362
01:01:19,820 --> 01:01:17,040
tell you you know he did meals-on-wheels

1363
01:01:21,110 --> 01:01:19,830
he was active in the community helped

1364
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:21,120
the elderly with their taxes

1365
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:22,650
unfortunately died of a massive heart

1366
01:01:25,220 --> 01:01:23,310
attack

1367
01:01:30,110 --> 01:01:25,230
I don't know where you're getting he was

1368
01:01:32,930 --> 01:01:30,120
incredible I was he not credible because

1369
01:01:36,890 --> 01:01:32,940
of his claim to have been in the OSS in

1370
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:36,900
1948 you have document to tell us he

1371
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:40,650
wasn't yes oh it didn't exist in 90 yeah

1372
01:01:45,770 --> 01:01:42,570
we've been it would have been OS

1373
01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:45,780
whatever that's central intelligent

1374
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:50,430
group right right any documentation that

1375
01:01:55,790 --> 01:01:51,690
he was a member of the Central

1376
01:01:58,270 --> 01:01:55,800
Intelligence Group no that's that's all

1377
01:02:00,590 --> 01:01:58,280
I'm asked all I'm saying that I I

1378
01:02:03,620 --> 01:02:00,600
mentioned Fred in the book I don't

1379
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:03,630
finish I don't publish his letter to

1380
01:02:08,330 --> 01:02:06,540
Debra my you I talked to Fred on the

1381
01:02:11,420 --> 01:02:08,340
phone Suzanne and I literally had

1382
01:02:14,050 --> 01:02:11,430
airline tickets to go fly out interview

1383
01:02:16,550 --> 01:02:14,060
when Leanne half-cock called and said

1384
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:16,560
Fred died of a massive heart attack on

1385
01:02:21,070 --> 01:02:17,970
Life Flight last night route to

1386
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:21,080
Albuquerque so I I you know Fred is a

1387
01:02:25,610 --> 01:02:23,730
person making a claim but not somebody

1388
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:25,620
other than talking to on the phone I had

1389
01:02:31,340 --> 01:02:27,810
time to really interview I understand

1390
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:31,350
that I'm just talking about the story

1391
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:33,870
the the report that he told in that you

1392
01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:35,610
gave to the newspaper and then what he

1393
01:02:41,030 --> 01:02:38,490
said later mm-hmm well you know I can't

1394
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:41,040
alter what they say Kevin I got a I put

1395
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:43,650
it on book as I know it okay you talked

1396
01:02:47,090 --> 01:02:46,530
about a guy named George now we call him

1397
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:47,100
George

1398
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:50,850
yes he we told his story to me during a

1399
01:02:54,470 --> 01:02:53,010
old winter night on the easy host when

1400
01:02:56,060 --> 01:02:54,480
he retired to explain to me that the

1401
01:02:57,920 --> 01:02:56,070
Aztec recovery as he put it was

1402
01:03:00,950 --> 01:02:57,930
coordinated directly out of Walker Air

1403
01:03:04,190 --> 01:03:00,960
Force Base yes that would be Roswell of

1404
01:03:06,980 --> 01:03:04,200
course for yes it was formally yeah so

1405
01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:06,990
I'm you know I just that just seems to

1406
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:09,590
be and again I'm looking at your book

1407
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:11,310
trying to piece all these things

1408
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:13,290
together as we chat here which is okay

1409
01:03:17,780 --> 01:03:15,510
let's keep them one thing about George

1410
01:03:21,410 --> 01:03:17,790
now George is well known by Mike Price

1411
01:03:24,860 --> 01:03:21,420
by Frank Warren and Dennis wall phasor

1412
01:03:27,350 --> 01:03:24,870
we verified all his records we verified

1413
01:03:29,780 --> 01:03:27,360
that he is in the yearbook so you know

1414
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:29,790
if he's making up the story he's in the

1415
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:31,530
year for the Roswell yearbook yeah and

1416
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:33,330
we're gonna have the answer to that

1417
01:03:38,090 --> 01:03:35,730
Roswell yearbook and more a lot of

1418
01:03:41,180 --> 01:03:38,100
evidence to explore here a lot of pros

1419
01:03:49,940 --> 01:03:41,190
and cons with Scott Ramsey Kevin Randle

1420
01:03:51,890 --> 01:03:49,950
with gene and Chris in the attack of the

1421
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:51,900
Rockets has been well received by

1422
01:03:56,240 --> 01:03:54,210
critics and readers alike it's a thrill

1423
01:03:58,280 --> 01:03:56,250
a minute story you'll never forget

1424
01:04:00,860 --> 01:03:58,290
a former US military intelligence

1425
01:04:03,530 --> 01:04:00,870
officer is haunted by intense dreams

1426
01:04:05,780 --> 01:04:03,540
about a beautiful woman pleading for his

1427
01:04:08,450 --> 01:04:05,790
help after a terrible battle in outer

1428
01:04:10,820 --> 01:04:08,460
space but the dreams turn out to be true

1429
01:04:13,310 --> 01:04:10,830
and thrust him into a telepathic love

1430
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:13,320
affair with a woman whose faraway planet

1431
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:15,930
is intent on destroying the earth and

1432
01:04:21,620 --> 01:04:18,930
now the gripping tale continues in but

1433
01:04:24,350 --> 01:04:21,630
coming of the protectors it's the second

1434
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:24,360
book of the rock ODEs trilogy a galaxy

1435
01:04:28,970 --> 01:04:26,250
spanning adventure that pits our hapless

1436
01:04:31,070 --> 01:04:28,980
heroes against powerful fanatical

1437
01:04:33,950 --> 01:04:31,080
enemies that threaten the lives of

1438
01:04:36,470 --> 01:04:33,960
freedom loving beings everywhere attack

1439
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:36,480
of the rock ODEs and the coming of the

1440
01:04:42,590 --> 01:04:39,330
protectors classic science fiction at

1441
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:42,600
its best available now for more details

1442
01:04:49,940 --> 01:04:44,610
visit rejoice calm

1443
01:04:52,550 --> 01:04:49,950
that's our Ock o IDs calm gold if you

1444
01:04:54,830 --> 01:04:52,560
listen to the radio watch TV or surf the

1445
01:04:56,810 --> 01:04:54,840
net you're hearing about gold eventually

1446
01:04:58,730 --> 01:04:56,820
you will ask yourself is gold right for

1447
01:05:00,620 --> 01:04:58,740
me the answer might surprise you we

1448
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:00,630
protect ourselves and our families from

1449
01:05:04,370 --> 01:05:02,730
things you have medical insurance is

1450
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:04,380
your home ensure you carry life

1451
01:05:09,050 --> 01:05:05,070
insurance

1452
01:05:11,090 --> 01:05:09,060
gold then the answer is yes if you don't

1453
01:05:12,740 --> 01:05:11,100
own gold the question is why don't you

1454
01:05:14,810 --> 01:05:12,750
have financial insurance we put our

1455
01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:14,820
faith in things we trust do you trust

1456
01:05:17,900 --> 01:05:16,920
the dollar you trust the economy you

1457
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:17,910
trust the government

1458
01:05:21,590 --> 01:05:19,530
gold has always been something you can

1459
01:05:23,660 --> 01:05:21,600
trust for thousands of years people have

1460
01:05:25,310 --> 01:05:23,670
put their faith in gold where will you

1461
01:05:27,530 --> 01:05:25,320
put your faith now is the time to

1462
01:06:25,060 --> 01:05:27,540
protect yourself and your family call

1463
01:06:30,020 --> 01:06:27,290
raya t of survival and preparedness

1464
01:06:32,930 --> 01:06:30,030
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1465
01:06:35,330 --> 01:06:32,940
visit the Berkey guy and go Berkey calm

1466
01:06:37,610 --> 01:06:35,340
and be sure to click the red products on

1467
01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:37,620
sale now button you can always call

1468
01:06:42,380 --> 01:06:39,900
toll-free eight seven seven eight eight

1469
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:42,390
six three six five three again that's

1470
01:06:48,620 --> 01:06:44,610
eight seven seven eight eight six three

1471
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:48,630
six five three go Berkey comm home of a

1472
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:51,450
perky guy after 22 years of nutritional

1473
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:53,250
counseling i've witnessed that a lot of

1474
01:06:57,110 --> 01:06:54,930
illness can be linked to toxins and

1475
01:06:58,910 --> 01:06:57,120
deficiencies combined improving your

1476
01:07:01,520 --> 01:06:58,920
liver function and restoring your cells

1477
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:01,530
ability to detoxify is essential to

1478
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:03,570
achieving radiant health listen to the

1479
01:07:06,140 --> 01:07:05,490
real-world results of Doug and his wife

1480
01:07:08,180 --> 01:07:06,150
after take

1481
01:07:10,220 --> 01:07:08,190
One World way my name is Doug dye

1482
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:10,230
Darrell for years I had an ongoing rash

1483
01:07:14,089 --> 01:07:12,210
with itching around my eyes this was due

1484
01:07:16,430 --> 01:07:14,099
to metal dust particles landing on my

1485
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:16,440
face in the workplace after being on one

1486
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:18,809
world way for two weeks I began to have

1487
01:07:23,630 --> 01:07:21,089
a severe rash in itching sensation

1488
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:23,640
around my eyes this rash in itching

1489
01:07:29,359 --> 01:07:26,970
lasted for five weeks and is now 100%

1490
01:07:31,460 --> 01:07:29,369
gone additionally without extra exercise

1491
01:07:33,650 --> 01:07:31,470
I've also increased my muscle size and

1492
01:07:35,839 --> 01:07:33,660
my wife have lost weight and gained a

1493
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:35,849
more attractive figure call eight eight

1494
01:07:39,289 --> 01:07:37,410
eight nine eight eight three three two

1495
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:39,299
five that's eight eight eight nine eight

1496
01:07:43,339 --> 01:07:41,490
eight three three two five eight eight

1497
01:07:46,789 --> 01:07:43,349
eight nine eight eight three three two

1498
01:07:52,039 --> 01:07:46,799
five or visit one world wacom that's one

1499
01:07:54,079 --> 01:07:52,049
world wh ey dot-com we'd like to hear

1500
01:07:56,599 --> 01:07:54,089
from you if you have a comment or

1501
01:07:59,480 --> 01:07:56,609
question about the para cast sent it to

1502
01:08:02,690 --> 01:07:59,490
News at the para cast com

1503
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:02,700
that's news at the para cast calm and

1504
01:08:08,420 --> 01:08:04,890
don't forget to visit our famous para

1505
01:08:13,099 --> 01:08:08,430
cast community forums at forum dr. Peric

1506
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:13,109
ask.com I'd like to thank both of you as

1507
01:08:17,030 --> 01:08:15,359
we continue Kevin Randall it's got

1508
01:08:19,070 --> 01:08:17,040
Ramsey for first putting up with some

1509
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:19,080
connection issues but also for being

1510
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:21,710
very civil to each other and trying to

1511
01:08:27,769 --> 01:08:24,719
dig up the facts and understand what we

1512
01:08:29,899 --> 01:08:27,779
know and don't know about the Aztec case

1513
01:08:31,490 --> 01:08:29,909
now Scott you said he was in this

1514
01:08:35,450 --> 01:08:31,500
particular yearbook was a school

1515
01:08:37,519 --> 01:08:35,460
yearbook the base yearbook okay this is

1516
01:08:39,740 --> 01:08:37,529
the base yearbook indicating personnel

1517
01:08:41,990 --> 01:08:39,750
and he was in there yes okay and what

1518
01:08:43,820 --> 01:08:42,000
was his name last name we're not gonna

1519
01:08:45,590 --> 01:08:43,830
release his name at this time Warren and

1520
01:08:47,149 --> 01:08:45,600
I still working on a lot of things

1521
01:08:50,030 --> 01:08:47,159
because I have a copy of the yearbook

1522
01:08:52,700 --> 01:08:50,040
right here but mm-hmm oh he's a man why

1523
01:08:55,610 --> 01:08:52,710
don't you go ahead and just do a private

1524
01:08:58,280 --> 01:08:55,620
message to Kevin and give him the name

1525
01:09:00,740 --> 01:08:58,290
so he can find it I'm not releasing his

1526
01:09:03,410 --> 01:09:00,750
name to anybody until his two sons and

1527
01:09:05,419 --> 01:09:03,420
George and I agree to do that George

1528
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:05,429
allowed me to release his name to Warren

1529
01:09:11,390 --> 01:09:08,850
and to balthazor and to Mike price so we

1530
01:09:13,820 --> 01:09:11,400
could verify his story okay all right

1531
01:09:15,740 --> 01:09:13,830
fair enough I mean yeah honor all

1532
01:09:18,110 --> 01:09:15,750
requests for anonymity and I understand

1533
01:09:19,039 --> 01:09:18,120
that I'm not gonna argue with that point

1534
01:09:21,140 --> 01:09:19,049
yeah yeah

1535
01:09:23,569 --> 01:09:21,150
you know I think the next field trip and

1536
01:09:25,700 --> 01:09:23,579
I mean this sincerely I'd love for Kevin

1537
01:09:27,169 --> 01:09:25,710
and his wife to meet us out naztech well

1538
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:27,179
first of all my wife will not meet you

1539
01:09:32,149 --> 01:09:29,130
an Aztek she's not a road travel well

1540
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:32,159
she just doesn't like to travel okay

1541
01:09:40,339 --> 01:09:34,770
especially road warriors going to all

1542
01:09:42,649 --> 01:09:40,349
these conferences not with her I didn't

1543
01:09:43,999 --> 01:09:42,659
go with me to RAC either well I can't

1544
01:09:47,629 --> 01:09:44,009
understand that that was a good call on

1545
01:09:50,390 --> 01:09:47,639
airport absolutely bad call on line yeah

1546
01:09:53,059 --> 01:09:50,400
I hear ya well you're back well let's

1547
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,069
move it along here you know I I think

1548
01:09:57,530 --> 01:09:55,199
we've reached an impasse with this

1549
01:10:00,379 --> 01:09:57,540
particular you know cul-de-sac here I

1550
01:10:02,959 --> 01:10:00,389
mean obviously if the guy is making

1551
01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:02,969
claims at some point I would hope Scott

1552
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:04,920
would be able to back that up and oh

1553
01:10:09,649 --> 01:10:07,650
absolutely not that's a biggie but my

1554
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:09,659
whole thing always goes back to Scully

1555
01:10:14,810 --> 01:10:12,480
in one of our questions at forum dr.

1556
01:10:16,250 --> 01:10:14,820
Tara Capcom is from century who's been

1557
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:16,260
quite an active participant over the

1558
01:10:19,850 --> 01:10:18,090
last couple years and he was a guest on

1559
01:10:22,069 --> 01:10:19,860
the show by the way it was a guest on

1560
01:10:24,589 --> 01:10:22,079
the show exactly three weeks ago if I

1561
01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:24,599
remember Frank Scully associated with

1562
01:10:29,689 --> 01:10:26,699
the contactees and even planned a second

1563
01:10:32,899 --> 01:10:29,699
UFO book one on the UFO contact reported

1564
01:10:35,959 --> 01:10:32,909
by Daniel Frye who brought you wonderful

1565
01:10:38,540 --> 01:10:35,969
brother Boko know if memory serves me

1566
01:10:41,089 --> 01:10:38,550
correct negotiations failed fry came out

1567
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:41,099
with his own book how do you feel Frank

1568
01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:43,650
Scully's association with the contactees

1569
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:45,750
reflects on his ability to have

1570
01:10:50,959 --> 01:10:48,570
evaluated reliable sources let me throw

1571
01:10:53,450 --> 01:10:50,969
that one over to you Scott and then okay

1572
01:10:54,740 --> 01:10:53,460
well first of all Frank Scully never

1573
01:10:57,649 --> 01:10:54,750
wrote that book that's a myth that

1574
01:10:59,930 --> 01:10:57,659
floated around the second book he wrote

1575
01:11:02,270 --> 01:10:59,940
to beckoned you know he first was behind

1576
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:02,280
the flying saucers the second one was

1577
01:11:06,890 --> 01:11:03,690
Gil I got it right here

1578
01:11:09,140 --> 01:11:06,900
anyway that third book was a sequel to

1579
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:09,150
behind the flying saucers that I have

1580
01:11:13,549 --> 01:11:11,610
the rough manuscript right here but that

1581
01:11:14,660 --> 01:11:13,559
book never got published that never got

1582
01:11:17,930 --> 01:11:14,670
Paul okay that's correct

1583
01:11:20,209 --> 01:11:17,940
and then Silas Newton wrote a book with

1584
01:11:21,859 --> 01:11:20,219
it seems and I'm going out on a limb

1585
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:21,869
here but it seems like Scully helped

1586
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:23,250
them because there's a little bit of

1587
01:11:27,109 --> 01:11:25,679
Frank Scully writing flair in it but you

1588
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:27,119
know that's why we spent five days in

1589
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:30,090
Laramie there's 33,000 documents in the

1590
01:11:32,959 --> 01:11:32,130
Frank Scully collection Mike price and I

1591
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:32,969
got there Sunday

1592
01:11:38,750 --> 01:11:34,860
we worked until they threw us out Friday

1593
01:11:40,910 --> 01:11:38,760
came back with 916 document copies of

1594
01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:40,920
documents of course they have just about

1595
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:44,040
every book that he ever wrote whether it

1596
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,840
was flying saucers or you know the

1597
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:47,760
entertainment or whatever it appears

1598
01:11:52,820 --> 01:11:50,489
that that contactee book if it was

1599
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:52,830
written it's not even in the catalog of

1600
01:11:56,270 --> 01:11:54,330
what the Scully family well according to

1601
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:56,280
the question here from century the

1602
01:12:01,459 --> 01:11:59,760
negotiations failed by Chris let me

1603
01:12:03,709 --> 01:12:01,469
interrupt here because I think I can end

1604
01:12:05,890 --> 01:12:03,719
this discussion right now it will help

1605
01:12:08,870 --> 01:12:05,900
who everybody holds up as the epitome of

1606
01:12:11,540 --> 01:12:08,880
the UFO field the guy that wrote the

1607
01:12:14,090 --> 01:12:11,550
report on unidentified flying objects a

1608
01:12:16,220 --> 01:12:14,100
former chief of Project Blue Book well

1609
01:12:19,729 --> 01:12:16,230
he coined the Turner he was going to

1610
01:12:21,229 --> 01:12:19,739
write a book on contactees as well so I

1611
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:21,239
was it was a subject of interest to a

1612
01:12:25,220 --> 01:12:23,850
wide range of people and and the fact

1613
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:25,230
that Scully might have been entertaining

1614
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:28,320
writing a book for about contactees to

1615
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:30,810
me strikes me as wholly irrelevant just

1616
01:12:35,390 --> 01:12:33,360
as the fact that group L was going to

1617
01:12:38,330 --> 01:12:35,400
write a book about the contactees as

1618
01:12:39,979 --> 01:12:38,340
well so I think this is kind of a

1619
01:12:42,530 --> 01:12:39,989
direction we don't need to go I think

1620
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:42,540
that the answer is if you get in this

1621
01:12:46,820 --> 01:12:44,850
field you may find areas that interest

1622
01:12:48,350 --> 01:12:46,830
you and it you just go off in that

1623
01:12:50,209 --> 01:12:48,360
direction I think I think that Nick

1624
01:12:52,610 --> 01:12:50,219
Redfern actually was talking about doing

1625
01:12:54,709 --> 01:12:52,620
a book on contactees Nick if I'm wrong

1626
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,719
forgive me on that one but I thought

1627
01:12:58,670 --> 01:12:56,640
well Greg Bishop should should also be

1628
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:58,680
involved in that he's really up to speed

1629
01:13:03,860 --> 01:13:01,920
on some of the more bizarre examples

1630
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:03,870
well I think since he's question

1631
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:07,530
basically reflected on a possible

1632
01:13:11,930 --> 01:13:09,690
question about Scully being able to vet

1633
01:13:14,330 --> 01:13:11,940
witnesses and evaluate reliable with

1634
01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:14,340
reliable sources as he put it in this

1635
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:16,560
question you know I'm just I'm just

1636
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:18,570
wondering here whether we're ever going

1637
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:19,860
to be able to really get to the bottom

1638
01:13:24,500 --> 01:13:21,690
of this without some sort sort of

1639
01:13:25,310 --> 01:13:24,510
smoking gun priests qaulity of you know

1640
01:13:27,170 --> 01:13:25,320
revelation

1641
01:13:28,939 --> 01:13:27,180
I think anything short of that is going

1642
01:13:31,670 --> 01:13:28,949
to be really difficult to conclusively

1643
01:13:34,130 --> 01:13:31,680
prove anything even you know look at

1644
01:13:36,709 --> 01:13:34,140
Roswell we have so much interesting

1645
01:13:39,290 --> 01:13:36,719
documentation concerning Roswell at

1646
01:13:41,630 --> 01:13:39,300
least were references to it at some

1647
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:41,640
point I wanted to ask both of you about

1648
01:13:46,489 --> 01:13:45,330
the rich Reynolds article that mentioned

1649
01:13:49,819 --> 01:13:46,499
something about

1650
01:13:51,859 --> 01:13:49,829
you know Aztec was actually a diversion

1651
01:13:54,290 --> 01:13:51,869
to deflect attention away from Roswell

1652
01:13:57,169 --> 01:13:54,300
and and mention of photographs that have

1653
01:13:58,779 --> 01:13:57,179
been recently uncovered which sounds

1654
01:14:01,250 --> 01:13:58,789
very intriguing Kevin

1655
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:01,260
how do you respond to that what do you

1656
01:14:07,660 --> 01:14:04,409
think of that particular spin that Aztec

1657
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:07,670
was real but it was actually a you know

1658
01:14:12,500 --> 01:14:11,130
Roswell back in mid nineteen seventeen

1659
01:14:15,140 --> 01:14:12,510
nineteen seventy-four I think Robert

1660
01:14:17,390 --> 01:14:15,150
Spencer car came out with a article or a

1661
01:14:17,839 --> 01:14:17,400
statement that the Aztec UFO crash was

1662
01:14:19,729 --> 01:14:17,849
real

1663
01:14:22,910 --> 01:14:19,739
he gave the names of five of the

1664
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:22,920
witnesses to lend Stringfield for some

1665
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:25,170
reason when Springfield's name eluded me

1666
01:14:28,279 --> 01:14:26,729
for a moment and when Springfield

1667
01:14:29,779 --> 01:14:28,289
confirmed that he'd talked to those

1668
01:14:32,810 --> 01:14:29,789
people and they did talk about a crashed

1669
01:14:36,379 --> 01:14:32,820
UFO then Mike McClellan did an article

1670
01:14:38,899 --> 01:14:36,389
for official UFO called the yes the UFO

1671
01:14:40,129 --> 01:14:38,909
crash at Aztecs is a hoax and he went

1672
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:40,139
through all the reasons he thought it

1673
01:14:44,689 --> 01:14:42,300
was a hoax they went back to car and car

1674
01:14:45,979 --> 01:14:44,699
said well I thought it was a stick it

1675
01:14:47,450 --> 01:14:45,989
may have been somewhere else

1676
01:14:50,899 --> 01:14:47,460
and so you can look at all of that

1677
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:50,909
evolution of stuff and say well car was

1678
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:53,130
talking about witnesses from Roswell as

1679
01:14:57,020 --> 01:14:55,170
opposed to Aztec but in the mid-1970s

1680
01:15:00,020 --> 01:14:57,030
nobody was talking about a UFO crash at

1681
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:00,030
Roswell everybody's talking about the

1682
01:15:06,950 --> 01:15:04,050
one event alleged event in in Aztec New

1683
01:15:09,739 --> 01:15:06,960
Mexico so everybody if you talked about

1684
01:15:11,839 --> 01:15:09,749
a UFO crash in New Mexico everybody just

1685
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:11,849
assumed at that point it was Aztec and

1686
01:15:17,390 --> 01:15:14,130
it may well have been information had

1687
01:15:19,609 --> 01:15:17,400
filtered out about a UFO crash that came

1688
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:19,619
from from the Roswell event so I think

1689
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:21,570
that's how that thing sort of default

1690
01:15:26,060 --> 01:15:23,610
but that's kind of a thing it's not a

1691
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:26,070
new proposition has been something

1692
01:15:30,799 --> 01:15:27,570
that's been floated around for a long

1693
01:15:34,729 --> 01:15:30,809
time in the UFO community that as dick

1694
01:15:38,180 --> 01:15:34,739
was really the cover for for pallazzo

1695
01:15:40,399 --> 01:15:38,190
and I think Barney Barnett scale which I

1696
01:15:42,410 --> 01:15:40,409
know in Bill Maher's book the Roswell

1697
01:15:45,350 --> 01:15:42,420
incident was important to at least

1698
01:15:48,140 --> 01:15:45,360
bringing alien creatures into the

1699
01:15:50,959 --> 01:15:48,150
Roswell case when Carl flock and I had

1700
01:15:53,390 --> 01:15:50,969
done some researches of this we came to

1701
01:15:55,549 --> 01:15:53,400
the conclusion that Barnett was not

1702
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:55,559
talking about Roswell then he was

1703
01:15:59,649 --> 01:15:57,090
talking about what some time post

1704
01:16:01,569 --> 01:15:59,659
Roswell and probably half

1705
01:16:04,750 --> 01:16:01,579
Scully's book was mentioned Scully's

1706
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:04,760
book or in fact that information about

1707
01:16:10,390 --> 01:16:06,650
the Aztec crash I think appeared in Time

1708
01:16:13,089 --> 01:16:10,400
magazine in January 1950 that's wrong

1709
01:16:14,949 --> 01:16:13,099
Scott I'm sure can correct me so I think

1710
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:14,959
it was the true magazine article you're

1711
01:16:17,469 --> 01:16:15,679
talking about

1712
01:16:20,890 --> 01:16:17,479
there was a Time magazine article that

1713
01:16:23,020 --> 01:16:20,900
came out in 1950 it was a column column

1714
01:16:25,719 --> 01:16:23,030
and a half and I think with time in

1715
01:16:28,989 --> 01:16:25,729
January ninth 1950 talking about this

1716
01:16:31,390 --> 01:16:28,999
prior to the book being published we

1717
01:16:38,069 --> 01:16:31,400
have Kevin Randle it's got Ramsey with

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the gzn radio network providing the

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[Music]

1817
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:09,380
so in our previous segment kevin Randall

1818
01:21:14,380 --> 01:21:11,290
refers to an article from Time magazine

1819
01:21:15,910 --> 01:21:14,390
my point my point was simply that there

1820
01:21:18,070 --> 01:21:15,920
was a lot of information about this

1821
01:21:21,610 --> 01:21:18,080
event sort of percolating through the

1822
01:21:23,140 --> 01:21:21,620
society in in 1950 and so that Carl and

1823
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:23,150
I came to the conclusion that that

1824
01:21:27,430 --> 01:21:25,610
Barnett was not talking about Roswell he

1825
01:21:31,390 --> 01:21:27,440
was talking about something that was was

1826
01:21:34,030 --> 01:21:31,400
later and that because of the national

1827
01:21:36,940 --> 01:21:34,040
interest in the events there in Aztec

1828
01:21:39,310 --> 01:21:36,950
from the Time magazine for example it

1829
01:21:42,370 --> 01:21:39,320
was possible that he had kind of glommed

1830
01:21:44,650 --> 01:21:42,380
onto that that report the idea that

1831
01:21:48,670 --> 01:21:44,660
Aztec is a cover for Roswell has been

1832
01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:48,680
floated for thirty years and what about

1833
01:21:54,430 --> 01:21:51,260
that other hint and the Reynolds piece

1834
01:21:57,030 --> 01:21:54,440
that I think UFO iconoclast a couple of

1835
01:21:59,380 --> 01:21:57,040
months ago where where he alludes to

1836
01:22:01,209 --> 01:21:59,390
recently uncovered photographs what do

1837
01:22:02,620 --> 01:22:01,219
you know about that I think you need to

1838
01:22:06,610 --> 01:22:02,630
ask which Reynold what he knows about

1839
01:22:09,370 --> 01:22:06,620
that wasn't that won a Tony Berg area

1840
01:22:11,830 --> 01:22:09,380
that made that claim too rich I'm not

1841
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:11,840
sure I'm not sure about I believe I

1842
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:15,170
believe it was my good friend and I and

1843
01:22:19,810 --> 01:22:18,170
I mean that sincerely Nick Redfern who

1844
01:22:22,150 --> 01:22:19,820
talked about those photographs to the

1845
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:22,160
rich Rennels no interesting well we'll

1846
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:24,290
have to ask Nick about that the next

1847
01:22:29,410 --> 01:22:25,610
time he has a book out which will

1848
01:22:30,850 --> 01:22:29,420
probably be in a couple of weeks guys I

1849
01:22:33,310 --> 01:22:30,860
mean by the way if you're gonna mention

1850
01:22:35,770 --> 01:22:33,320
rich Reynolds a UFO iconoclast can't you

1851
01:22:38,020 --> 01:22:35,780
mention Kevin Randall's a different

1852
01:22:39,820 --> 01:22:38,030
perspective I mean gee whiz guy well of

1853
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:39,830
course I'm right here I'm right here on

1854
01:22:45,010 --> 01:22:42,130
the show and and everybody's getting

1855
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:45,020
publicity but me so I just happen of

1856
01:22:49,209 --> 01:22:47,690
course that all our longtime listeners

1857
01:22:52,810 --> 01:22:49,219
know about the different perspective I'm

1858
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:52,820
sure but you know you can also self

1859
01:22:57,940 --> 01:22:54,890
promote as well we're here actually

1860
01:23:00,760 --> 01:22:57,950
doing a debate and some sort of a debate

1861
01:23:03,729 --> 01:23:00,770
kind of a loose informal debate here but

1862
01:23:06,550 --> 01:23:03,739
Scott what what do you have to say to

1863
01:23:09,310 --> 01:23:06,560
that that these revelations that Kevin

1864
01:23:11,440 --> 01:23:09,320
is alluding to we're glommed onto as a

1865
01:23:15,620 --> 01:23:11,450
result of the of the Scully

1866
01:23:18,020 --> 01:23:15,630
the Scully con context and

1867
01:23:19,340 --> 01:23:18,030
resulting articles that came out may

1868
01:23:21,649 --> 01:23:19,350
have alluded to that and where do you

1869
01:23:25,189 --> 01:23:21,659
come down without that being a plausible

1870
01:23:27,260 --> 01:23:25,199
denial Roswell no I think Aztec was its

1871
01:23:29,209 --> 01:23:27,270
own separate event approximately eight

1872
01:23:31,189 --> 01:23:29,219
months after Roswell or whatever

1873
01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:31,199
whatever happened in both locations was

1874
01:23:36,740 --> 01:23:34,110
completely separate event I just can't I

1875
01:23:39,020 --> 01:23:36,750
can't believe and Kevin mentioned before

1876
01:23:40,790 --> 01:23:39,030
the the sheriff of Aztec didn't believe

1877
01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:40,800
it and neither did the editor of the

1878
01:23:46,430 --> 01:23:43,650
paper I'd like to see documentation on

1879
01:23:49,820 --> 01:23:46,440
that to Kevin because I warned and I had

1880
01:23:52,850 --> 01:23:49,830
some things we've never released about

1881
01:23:55,189 --> 01:23:52,860
what Boers said and one of the sheriff's

1882
01:23:58,310 --> 01:23:55,199
and in that timeframe you had four guys

1883
01:24:00,560 --> 01:23:58,320
that rotated the sheriff's position Don

1884
01:24:02,899 --> 01:24:00,570
Brown is still alive or at least a few

1885
01:24:07,100 --> 01:24:02,909
months ago he was still alive the

1886
01:24:09,169 --> 01:24:07,110
Sullivans have since passed I don't know

1887
01:24:11,419 --> 01:24:09,179
if I would take that comment the

1888
01:24:13,550 --> 01:24:11,429
sheriff's didn't believe a flying saucer

1889
01:24:16,370 --> 01:24:13,560
went down in Hart Canyon that comes down

1890
01:24:19,129 --> 01:24:16,380
that comes from Carl Lorenzen in her

1891
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:19,139
Apple bulletins yeah also coming from

1892
01:24:25,850 --> 01:24:22,770
Mike McClellan in his UFO crash at Aztec

1893
01:24:28,580 --> 01:24:25,860
in the UFO crash and at Tech in 1948 is

1894
01:24:32,270 --> 01:24:28,590
a hoax or however you that long involved

1895
01:24:35,060 --> 01:24:32,280
title I his and it seems that McClellan

1896
01:24:38,660 --> 01:24:35,070
did talk to both the newspaper editor

1897
01:24:41,689 --> 01:24:38,670
and the two of the sheriff's about that

1898
01:24:45,050 --> 01:24:41,699
so she did without information core

1899
01:24:47,149 --> 01:24:45,060
Lorenzen yes she did and she talked to

1900
01:24:50,090 --> 01:24:47,159
Danny Sullivan and she talked to him on

1901
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:50,100
a Friday night and she was not in Aztec

1902
01:24:54,169 --> 01:24:52,170
that the Sullivans lived south of Aztec

1903
01:24:57,220 --> 01:24:54,179
anyways it's Sullivan Road the Sullivan

1904
01:25:00,470 --> 01:24:57,230
ranch is still there he told her exactly

1905
01:25:03,260 --> 01:25:00,480
that he was not the sheriff at the time

1906
01:25:06,890 --> 01:25:03,270
and was not comfortable about talking

1907
01:25:07,430 --> 01:25:06,900
about it she took that as nothing

1908
01:25:09,740 --> 01:25:07,440
happened

1909
01:25:11,899 --> 01:25:09,750
and I believe her husband was with her

1910
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:11,909
on that trip that would be Jim Lorenzen

1911
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:17,370
today the Sullivan family does not have

1912
01:25:22,879 --> 01:25:20,489
any recall of the Sullivan's telling her

1913
01:25:25,790 --> 01:25:22,889
flat out that nothing happened Danny

1914
01:25:27,860 --> 01:25:25,800
Sullivan said I was not the sheriff and

1915
01:25:29,470 --> 01:25:27,870
I don't feel comfortable about talking

1916
01:25:32,350 --> 01:25:29,480
about it because I will

1917
01:25:33,790 --> 01:25:32,360
- Sheriff William could be construed

1918
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:33,800
that he wasn't the sheriff so he's not

1919
01:25:37,990 --> 01:25:35,210
comfortable talking about it not that

1920
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:38,000
it's something happened that's great but

1921
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:39,650
I'm just saying I'm just saying the

1922
01:25:45,430 --> 01:25:41,930
lorenz ins did interview these people

1923
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:45,440
and that was the response they got well

1924
01:25:50,050 --> 01:25:48,050
that's not quite the response they got

1925
01:25:52,420 --> 01:25:50,060
and I think that's a road trip were

1926
01:25:55,690 --> 01:25:52,430
we've found that all ovens and talk to

1927
01:25:58,060 --> 01:25:55,700
him that's what that's what car Lorenzen

1928
01:26:00,040 --> 01:25:58,070
reported and I know what she reported

1929
01:26:02,440 --> 01:26:00,050
I'm questioning whether it's what she

1930
01:26:04,630 --> 01:26:02,450
reported and whether the family agrees

1931
01:26:07,810 --> 01:26:04,640
with it and and like I said Don Brown

1932
01:26:09,970 --> 01:26:07,820
stole a lot well going back a few months

1933
01:26:12,130 --> 01:26:09,980
ago he was still alive well he must be

1934
01:26:14,110 --> 01:26:12,140
getting up there yeah here's I don't

1935
01:26:16,150 --> 01:26:14,120
want to say anything negative about the

1936
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:16,160
credibility of Jim and Cora Lorenzen I

1937
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:19,010
assume they were both credible and

1938
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:20,810
honest although I did have my run-ins

1939
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:23,510
with mrs. Lorenzen over the years for

1940
01:26:36,130 --> 01:26:25,970
very silly reasons can I guess what

1941
01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:36,140
those run into were about in a garage in

1942
01:26:41,530 --> 01:26:38,810
that some storage unit somewhere no guys

1943
01:26:43,060 --> 01:26:41,540
that wasn't what I had a run-in with her

1944
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:43,070
about it was something that goes back to

1945
01:26:46,330 --> 01:26:45,770
my teenage years and I'll leave it at

1946
01:26:48,490 --> 01:26:46,340
that right now

1947
01:26:51,390 --> 01:26:48,500
go ahead well you were a teenager at one

1948
01:26:54,250 --> 01:26:51,400
point yes some people don't believe that

1949
01:26:56,740 --> 01:26:54,260
some people fervently say that gene was

1950
01:26:59,490 --> 01:26:56,750
never a teenager gene is really some

1951
01:27:01,990 --> 01:26:59,500
kind of entity from another planet and

1952
01:27:04,270 --> 01:27:02,000
you know I may plead guilty but then

1953
01:27:05,950 --> 01:27:04,280
people will start rumors on Twitter but

1954
01:27:08,290 --> 01:27:05,960
when it comes to the a profiles there

1955
01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:08,300
are some real gems in there and I man

1956
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:09,920
I'm gonna make it my life's mission to

1957
01:27:13,330 --> 01:27:11,930
get them to give me the combination on

1958
01:27:16,030 --> 01:27:13,340
the lock in the storage unit

1959
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:16,040
I know exactly who has it and it's

1960
01:27:20,650 --> 01:27:18,610
really been working me for a while

1961
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:20,660
there's a lot of good stuff in there

1962
01:27:25,780 --> 01:27:23,450
including the investigation that Kevin

1963
01:27:27,670 --> 01:27:25,790
is talking about can I add something

1964
01:27:29,680 --> 01:27:27,680
from that same time frame of the

1965
01:27:31,540 --> 01:27:29,690
Sullivans and Don Brown and the

1966
01:27:35,290 --> 01:27:31,550
sheriff's and George Barbara from the

1967
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:35,300
Aztec independent just a few years back

1968
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:37,489
Hank Knowlton passed away and Hank was

1969
01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:39,890
and the family the Knowlton family still

1970
01:27:42,310 --> 01:27:41,450
is but one of the big pillars of the

1971
01:27:44,970 --> 01:27:42,320
community

1972
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:44,980
and Hank contacted me in the mid

1973
01:27:50,410 --> 01:27:48,890
mid-2000s and said boy you know I really

1974
01:27:53,110 --> 01:27:50,420
got a problem with the Aztec story

1975
01:27:55,990 --> 01:27:53,120
because I own part of the crash site and

1976
01:27:58,660 --> 01:27:56,000
48 when that happened he said I'm not

1977
01:28:00,850 --> 01:27:58,670
saying nothing happened out there that

1978
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:00,860
story has been floating for years but it

1979
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:03,050
didn't happen in March of 48 because I

1980
01:28:07,530 --> 01:28:05,930
own the land back then well when I

1981
01:28:09,670 --> 01:28:07,540
Knowlton says that you listen because

1982
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:09,680
there's like I said there's a pillar of

1983
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:10,370
the community

1984
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:14,210
long story short next trip out Suzanne

1985
01:28:18,370 --> 01:28:16,610
and I pulled the real estate records and

1986
01:28:20,410 --> 01:28:18,380
he had told us he bought it from high

1987
01:28:22,510 --> 01:28:20,420
dunning HD Dunning that owned the ranch

1988
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:22,520
right next to it between the two of them

1989
01:28:28,090 --> 01:28:25,130
they almost owned the entire crash site

1990
01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:28,100
except for a sliver of BLM land and

1991
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:30,320
Suzanne I went and pulled the the deeds

1992
01:28:33,910 --> 01:28:31,370
and sure enough

1993
01:28:38,890 --> 01:28:33,920
Hank Knowlton did own it but not until

1994
01:28:40,750 --> 01:28:38,900
May 17 1953 five years later and I

1995
01:28:42,610 --> 01:28:40,760
presented that to Hank and he said well

1996
01:28:44,290 --> 01:28:42,620
okay let me think about that and you

1997
01:28:46,630 --> 01:28:44,300
know family members got involved and

1998
01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:46,640
said yeah you're right when you start

1999
01:28:51,040 --> 01:28:48,080
talking to people and I know Kevin

2000
01:28:53,830 --> 01:28:51,050
you've experienced this with Roswell 60

2001
01:28:55,690 --> 01:28:53,840
some years 50 some years and let's look

2002
01:28:59,560 --> 01:28:55,700
at our own cells what we can and can't

2003
01:29:01,390 --> 01:28:59,570
remember it gets very it's easy for

2004
01:29:04,030 --> 01:29:01,400
somebody to say yes they remember it or

2005
01:29:06,790 --> 01:29:04,040
no they don't remember it and that's why

2006
01:29:09,010 --> 01:29:06,800
we have to rely on rent receipts and

2007
01:29:11,470 --> 01:29:09,020
utility records and and property

2008
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:11,480
transfers because my memory is no better

2009
01:29:16,180 --> 01:29:14,000
than anybody else's either but that that

2010
01:29:18,340 --> 01:29:16,190
all was in that same time for him back

2011
01:29:20,110 --> 01:29:18,350
then yeah that's a good point

2012
01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:20,120
it's important to write everything down

2013
01:29:25,470 --> 01:29:21,950
I've been saying that like a broken

2014
01:29:27,700 --> 01:29:25,480
record for years on this show but well

2015
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:27,710
you know we're where do we take it from

2016
01:29:31,930 --> 01:29:29,450
there I mean where do we take this from

2017
01:29:34,390 --> 01:29:31,940
here Scott how what do you have on your

2018
01:29:37,540 --> 01:29:34,400
burner front burner that's going to lead

2019
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:37,550
you to that smoking gun information do

2020
01:29:41,230 --> 01:29:39,050
you think there's enough time do you

2021
01:29:42,100 --> 01:29:41,240
think there's the smoking gun person's

2022
01:29:43,930 --> 01:29:42,110
still alive

2023
01:29:46,330 --> 01:29:43,940
I mean what what you're thinking right

2024
01:29:48,580 --> 01:29:46,340
now we have 30 seconds before I have to

2025
01:29:50,770 --> 01:29:48,590
do the break guys so just Pete at the

2026
01:29:52,360 --> 01:29:50,780
beginning of the answer short sky and

2027
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:52,370
we'll continue in the next segment go

2028
01:29:55,940 --> 01:29:52,970
ahead please

2029
01:29:57,320 --> 01:29:55,950
we're constantly following new leads

2030
01:29:59,000 --> 01:29:57,330
since the book came out and since

2031
01:30:02,330 --> 01:29:59,010
Suzanne I spent two weeks out there in

2032
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:02,340
March we got some very good leads but I

2033
01:30:07,970 --> 01:30:04,050
think I have a question about that which

2034
01:30:10,090 --> 01:30:07,980
would be how sixty five years later can

2035
01:30:12,500 --> 01:30:10,100
you get any more leads about this case

2036
01:30:14,900 --> 01:30:12,510
shouldn't the trail be pretty cold by

2037
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:14,910
now the book is the Aztec incident by

2038
01:30:20,570 --> 01:30:17,760
the way and we have one of the authors

2039
01:30:22,540 --> 01:30:20,580
scott ramsey with us who's done this for

2040
01:30:25,190 --> 01:30:22,550
many years to bring that book together

2041
01:30:27,590 --> 01:30:25,200
Kevin Randall joining us on the skeptic

2042
01:30:38,979 --> 01:30:27,600
side of this particular discussion with

2043
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America's number one source for

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2100
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2101
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2123
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healthy I then searched out the best

2135
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2136
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2137
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2138
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2139
01:34:29,050 --> 01:34:27,800
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2140
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to be satisfied

2141
01:34:33,549 --> 01:34:30,979
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2142
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in two months simply getting the

2143
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2144
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2145
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:38,959
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2146
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2147
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2148
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2149
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:52,039
supplement that's Infowars team Tom hi

2150
01:34:58,270 --> 01:34:54,170
the to make Pope you're listening to the

2151
01:34:59,949 --> 01:34:58,280
Paragon on the power cast was Jean and

2152
01:35:02,049 --> 01:34:59,959
Chris the great debate with Kevin

2153
01:35:05,229 --> 01:35:02,059
Randall and Scott Ramsey on the Aztec

2154
01:35:07,810 --> 01:35:05,239
New Mexico UFO crash of 1948

2155
01:35:11,049 --> 01:35:07,820
so the question on the table Scott

2156
01:35:13,629 --> 01:35:11,059
Ramsey is you're still studying this but

2157
01:35:15,489 --> 01:35:13,639
we're talking about the problem that I'm

2158
01:35:17,469 --> 01:35:15,499
sure Kevin and his crew have with

2159
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:17,479
Roswell and that is we're talking about

2160
01:35:22,779 --> 01:35:20,209
something 65 years old how did he get

2161
01:35:24,580 --> 01:35:22,789
more evidence it's a huge problem is it

2162
01:35:26,529 --> 01:35:24,590
you know it was a huge problem in the

2163
01:35:29,339 --> 01:35:26,539
late 80s you know I was only forty years

2164
01:35:31,959 --> 01:35:29,349
away from you know the alleged date

2165
01:35:34,330 --> 01:35:31,969
Suzanne and I well after I saw you Jean

2166
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:34,340
and Phoenix I met Suzanne up in the four

2167
01:35:38,620 --> 01:35:36,050
corners and we're up there did two book

2168
01:35:40,180 --> 01:35:38,630
signings two lectures not expecting it

2169
01:35:43,750 --> 01:35:40,190
but we got some good solid leads

2170
01:35:45,729 --> 01:35:43,760
very solid leads one was a ranch retired

2171
01:35:48,580 --> 01:35:45,739
Ranch Hand that worked for one of the

2172
01:35:51,069 --> 01:35:48,590
ranchers and he came forward and told us

2173
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:51,079
things that we never put in the book

2174
01:35:55,239 --> 01:35:52,610
because we were waiting for somebody

2175
01:35:57,549 --> 01:35:55,249
like him to come forward it is it a

2176
01:36:00,489 --> 01:35:57,559
smoking gun no it's not a smoking gun

2177
01:36:03,100 --> 01:36:00,499
it's more circumstantial evidence which

2178
01:36:06,459 --> 01:36:03,110
most of these UFO cases flying cases the

2179
01:36:08,169 --> 01:36:06,469
saucer cases are I got a call from the

2180
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:08,179
gentleman that was with the Atomic

2181
01:36:15,489 --> 01:36:13,610
Energy Commission and retired and told

2182
01:36:19,149 --> 01:36:15,499
of an incident now he can't confirm

2183
01:36:22,540 --> 01:36:19,159
whether it was 48 or 49 but he was there

2184
01:36:25,660 --> 01:36:22,550
from 48 49 and 50 before he was moved

2185
01:36:29,709 --> 01:36:25,670
down to Kirkland and and was ran

2186
01:36:31,419 --> 01:36:29,719
security at the Sandia there's always

2187
01:36:33,729 --> 01:36:31,429
good leads coming out but you gotta you

2188
01:36:35,620 --> 01:36:33,739
got to separate the ones that are going

2189
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:35,630
to consume a lot of time and money and

2190
01:36:39,549 --> 01:36:38,090
what are you going to yield but you

2191
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:39,559
still have to collect them and you still

2192
01:36:44,979 --> 01:36:42,530
have to look at each one so I I don't

2193
01:36:46,419 --> 01:36:44,989
know you

2194
01:36:50,379 --> 01:36:46,429
chance of getting a first-hand witness

2195
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:50,389
like Doug Nolan or Ken Farley are few

2196
01:36:54,549 --> 01:36:52,730
and far between that were racing the

2197
01:36:56,890 --> 01:36:54,559
clock and so that makes it very

2198
01:37:00,040 --> 01:36:56,900
difficult yeah and the same holds true

2199
01:37:02,589 --> 01:37:00,050
for Roswell as I'm sure yeah I mean I

2200
01:37:04,930 --> 01:37:02,599
was a young kid when Kecksburg happened

2201
01:37:06,580 --> 01:37:04,940
living in Pittsburgh stayed up late to

2202
01:37:08,879 --> 01:37:06,590
watch everything on the news that was my

2203
01:37:12,189 --> 01:37:08,889
first introduction and interest in

2204
01:37:13,989 --> 01:37:12,199
whatever the phenomena is and I know

2205
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:13,999
what Stan Gordon goes through to this

2206
01:37:20,169 --> 01:37:16,690
day trying to find people that you know

2207
01:37:21,669 --> 01:37:20,179
stan is an unsung hero boy well it's

2208
01:37:23,890 --> 01:37:21,679
it's like trying to be a homicide

2209
01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:23,900
detective and solving a murder case in

2210
01:37:29,020 --> 01:37:26,090
LA when you're living in New York you

2211
01:37:30,790 --> 01:37:29,030
know it's difficult you know and had 40

2212
01:37:31,569 --> 01:37:30,800
50 60 years to it it makes it all the

2213
01:37:33,580 --> 01:37:31,579
more difficult

2214
01:37:35,290 --> 01:37:33,590
well that raises a serious question

2215
01:37:38,410 --> 01:37:35,300
before we get on to the other issues

2216
01:37:40,450 --> 01:37:38,420
Scott and that is at what point do we

2217
01:37:44,470 --> 01:37:40,460
say this is the cold case that we're

2218
01:37:46,689 --> 01:37:44,480
never going to solve and move on can we

2219
01:37:48,310 --> 01:37:46,699
just keep hoping that more evidence will

2220
01:37:51,129 --> 01:37:48,320
come and that may be one of those pieces

2221
01:37:53,529 --> 01:37:51,139
of evidence will be so solid that nobody

2222
01:37:57,129 --> 01:37:53,539
not even Kevin Randall or anyone else

2223
01:37:59,770 --> 01:37:57,139
skeptical of this case look let's not

2224
01:38:03,700 --> 01:37:59,780
but be careful on banding my name about

2225
01:38:05,350 --> 01:38:03,710
here okay you know so skeptical that

2226
01:38:06,790 --> 01:38:05,360
even Kevin Randall would agree well

2227
01:38:09,970 --> 01:38:06,800
you're very skeptical of this case

2228
01:38:12,069 --> 01:38:09,980
absolutely but this one specific case

2229
01:38:14,470 --> 01:38:12,079
and I don't I just don't like being cast

2230
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:14,480
in the role of the skeptic you know

2231
01:38:18,879 --> 01:38:16,010
we're not trying to paint you with a

2232
01:38:20,890 --> 01:38:18,889
broad brush my friend we're just trying

2233
01:38:24,069 --> 01:38:20,900
to put you in the position compensations

2234
01:38:25,870 --> 01:38:24,079
myself but that I said I was welcome

2235
01:38:28,959 --> 01:38:25,880
being called a skeptic and in a lot of

2236
01:38:30,879 --> 01:38:28,969
conversations in this topic but but in

2237
01:38:33,430 --> 01:38:30,889
this particular case I mean this is this

2238
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:33,440
is a very you know I always thought when

2239
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:35,570
I first heard about our tech I always

2240
01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:38,570
heard that you know we really can't tell

2241
01:38:43,209 --> 01:38:40,880
if this was real or a hoax and I was for

2242
01:38:45,489 --> 01:38:43,219
years I didn't really pay attention to

2243
01:38:47,140 --> 01:38:45,499
it and tell Scott's work and then all of

2244
01:38:50,020 --> 01:38:47,150
a sudden it seems like you know the

2245
01:38:52,029 --> 01:38:50,030
thing grew legs and there there is some

2246
01:38:53,500 --> 01:38:52,039
some pretty interesting circumstantial

2247
01:38:55,569 --> 01:38:53,510
evidence that does support something

2248
01:38:58,450 --> 01:38:55,579
happened there I have a question for

2249
01:38:58,790 --> 01:38:58,460
current state which basic geared for a

2250
01:39:01,400 --> 01:38:58,800
new man

2251
01:39:03,170 --> 01:39:01,410
to go and he asked the three most

2252
01:39:05,060 --> 01:39:03,180
interesting early New Mexico events of

2253
01:39:06,950 --> 01:39:05,070
the Roswell crash the Aztec crash and

2254
01:39:09,470 --> 01:39:06,960
the Farmington Armada which I've always

2255
01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:09,480
thought is an important case which to

2256
01:39:13,010 --> 01:39:10,830
fill is the most compelling case that

2257
01:39:16,210 --> 01:39:13,020
has the most verifiable evidence in

2258
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:16,220
reliable witnesses in both your opinions

2259
01:39:21,850 --> 01:39:20,010
Kevin you want to start this one I will

2260
01:39:24,920 --> 01:39:21,860
confess that I am not completely

2261
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:24,930
conversant in the Farmington case I know

2262
01:39:30,110 --> 01:39:26,850
it was a big armada that was seen in

2263
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:30,120
what 1950 and I say that just to prove

2264
01:39:35,150 --> 01:39:31,650
but I at least know something about it

2265
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:35,160
but but I think that was mainly just an

2266
01:39:39,890 --> 01:39:38,010
observation by people on the ground lots

2267
01:39:42,440 --> 01:39:39,900
of people on the ground but mainly an

2268
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:42,450
observation so you you move that to a

2269
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:46,730
side because it was simply what people

2270
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:48,690
simplify over and you just have

2271
01:39:53,300 --> 01:39:51,450
witnesses paper accounts as law

2272
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:53,310
forcement reports there's all sorts of

2273
01:39:57,950 --> 01:39:55,440
interesting documentation about it but

2274
01:40:01,370 --> 01:39:57,960
again it's it's like trying to document

2275
01:40:04,180 --> 01:40:01,380
a mosquito by you know you don't buy

2276
01:40:06,680 --> 01:40:04,190
versus a bite you know if it flies by it

2277
01:40:08,090 --> 01:40:06,690
it was mentioned in the newspapers at

2278
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:08,100
the time and all of that sort of thing

2279
01:40:12,860 --> 01:40:10,770
right so you come down in Roswell as

2280
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:12,870
being the the most interesting early New

2281
01:40:16,700 --> 01:40:15,210
Mexico event then I think so simply

2282
01:40:18,230 --> 01:40:16,710
because of the number of witnesses and

2283
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:18,240
the documentation that we've been able

2284
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:21,330
to uncover there it clearly was reported

2285
01:40:24,500 --> 01:40:22,410
in the newspapers it was clearly

2286
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:24,510
debunked in the newspapers there's FBI

2287
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:27,600
documents from that specific day there's

2288
01:40:32,450 --> 01:40:30,510
other documentation circulating that

2289
01:40:36,230 --> 01:40:32,460
talks about that and we have some very

2290
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:36,240
high-level witnesses including general

2291
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:38,010
officers who have talked about about

2292
01:40:42,620 --> 01:40:40,170
that a number of general officers number

2293
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:42,630
of full Colonels number of lieutenant

2294
01:40:46,580 --> 01:40:44,130
Colonel's who don't impress me much

2295
01:40:49,130 --> 01:40:46,590
anymore because lieutenant Colonel's are

2296
01:40:51,470 --> 01:40:49,140
just lieutenant Colonel's but I mean a

2297
01:40:55,550 --> 01:40:51,480
lot of high ranking people who

2298
01:40:58,790 --> 01:40:55,560
documented we were able to find the

2299
01:41:00,170 --> 01:40:58,800
witnesses a lot of the witnesses based

2300
01:41:02,300 --> 01:41:00,180
on the yearbook that was published by

2301
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:02,310
walter haut so we have some very very

2302
01:41:06,890 --> 01:41:04,890
compelling very good documentation so if

2303
01:41:08,810 --> 01:41:06,900
I was to rank three cases it would be of

2304
01:41:11,030 --> 01:41:08,820
course Roswell one farmington two and

2305
01:41:12,089 --> 01:41:11,040
aztec three which I'm sure Scott won't

2306
01:41:13,949 --> 01:41:12,099
agree with

2307
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:13,959
way I drank them but no I think they're

2308
01:41:19,319 --> 01:41:16,090
all they're all important Kevin I really

2309
01:41:21,659 --> 01:41:19,329
do i the couple years back Suzanne and I

2310
01:41:23,819 --> 01:41:21,669
weren't involved in the Aztecs imposing

2311
01:41:25,949 --> 01:41:23,829
in the last four or five years it went a

2312
01:41:28,709 --> 01:41:25,959
different direction but but prior to

2313
01:41:31,709 --> 01:41:28,719
that one year we invited the people

2314
01:41:34,099 --> 01:41:31,719
listed on the front page of the

2315
01:41:36,719 --> 01:41:34,109
Farmington Daily Times to attend and

2316
01:41:39,419 --> 01:41:36,729
kind of a classier quit in our class

2317
01:41:40,949 --> 01:41:39,429
reunion today Armada reunion it was

2318
01:41:42,929 --> 01:41:40,959
everybody that was listed in the article

2319
01:41:45,419 --> 01:41:42,939
that was quoted with the only exception

2320
01:41:48,029 --> 01:41:45,429
of Andy Andrews the highway patrolman he

2321
01:41:51,270 --> 01:41:48,039
had since passed it was interesting

2322
01:41:52,889 --> 01:41:51,280
listening to these people to retell the

2323
01:41:55,919 --> 01:41:52,899
story and comparing it with the front

2324
01:41:57,839 --> 01:41:55,929
page I have the original cut sheet that

2325
01:41:59,969 --> 01:41:57,849
was typed and then put in a little tube

2326
01:42:01,679 --> 01:41:59,979
that was shot upstairs to the second

2327
01:42:03,540 --> 01:42:01,689
third third floor at the Daily Times

2328
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:03,550
were then they made that the headline

2329
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:08,530
and it's it was over 2,500 people saw

2330
01:42:13,409 --> 01:42:11,010
these objects that's a lot of people

2331
01:42:15,719 --> 01:42:13,419
that's according to The Daily Times by

2332
01:42:19,199 --> 01:42:15,729
the way and and you get no argument for

2333
01:42:21,810 --> 01:42:19,209
me yeah it was more cheating maybe it

2334
01:42:26,819 --> 01:42:21,820
was a really late arriving search party

2335
01:42:29,869 --> 01:42:26,829
yeah yeah well I I don't think but I you

2336
01:42:33,509 --> 01:42:29,879
the level of flying saucer or whatever

2337
01:42:36,029 --> 01:42:33,519
unidentified flying phenomena is still

2338
01:42:37,859 --> 01:42:36,039
huge and prevalent to this day the

2339
01:42:39,869 --> 01:42:37,869
emails I get the San Juan County

2340
01:42:41,609 --> 01:42:39,879
Sheriff's Department highway all the way

2341
01:42:44,939 --> 01:42:41,619
over to the San Luis Valley always

2342
01:42:47,609 --> 01:42:44,949
exactly to let you know we have another

2343
01:42:49,469 --> 01:42:47,619
Lopez mm-hmm you know and we have a joke

2344
01:42:51,149 --> 01:42:49,479
here it's not the town drunk sending

2345
01:42:52,979 --> 01:42:51,159
these to me these are you know off the

2346
01:42:54,540 --> 01:42:52,989
incompetence you know the San Juan

2347
01:42:57,839 --> 01:42:54,550
police department Aztec police

2348
01:42:59,279 --> 01:42:57,849
department members like Los Alamos you

2349
01:43:00,899 --> 01:42:59,289
know both you guys I'm still trying to

2350
01:43:03,599 --> 01:43:00,909
wrap my head around the concept that

2351
01:43:07,259 --> 01:43:03,609
some sort of civilization was exalted

2352
01:43:08,879 --> 01:43:07,269
you know exotic technology could have

2353
01:43:12,060 --> 01:43:08,889
that technology to get them all the way

2354
01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:12,070
light-years to here and then crash to me

2355
01:43:16,259 --> 01:43:14,169
it sounds like a Monty Python screenplay

2356
01:43:18,149 --> 01:43:16,269
or something it was just something about

2357
01:43:20,040 --> 01:43:18,159
that that I have never been able to

2358
01:43:21,959 --> 01:43:20,050
reconcile did you ever think though

2359
01:43:23,729 --> 01:43:21,969
Chris that even on these other planets

2360
01:43:26,160 --> 01:43:23,739
these other civilizations these other

2361
01:43:28,530 --> 01:43:26,170
star systems that they don't have

2362
01:43:31,709 --> 01:43:28,540
of competitive bidding to build

2363
01:43:34,530 --> 01:43:31,719
spaceships and maybe one of those

2364
01:43:35,220 --> 01:43:34,540
companies you know like the Ferengi in

2365
01:43:38,010 --> 01:43:35,230
Star Trek

2366
01:43:42,540 --> 01:43:38,020
you know they made such a deal yeah bad

2367
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:42,550
joke they made a deal with the you know

2368
01:43:48,090 --> 01:43:45,040
the thing didn't hold up under a couple

2369
01:43:51,150 --> 01:43:48,100
of trip since god radar brought it down

2370
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:51,160
III just or lightning alright well I was

2371
01:43:54,650 --> 01:43:53,050
going to say I was gonna say it was it

2372
01:43:57,090 --> 01:43:54,660
was built by the lowest bidder which

2373
01:44:01,110 --> 01:43:57,100
mmm-hmm same difference yeah but the

2374
01:44:02,729 --> 01:44:01,120
other thing is if we assume that even

2375
01:44:04,169 --> 01:44:02,739
though they have a superior technology

2376
01:44:06,540 --> 01:44:04,179
to ours

2377
01:44:09,450 --> 01:44:06,550
they still make mistakes and the crafts

2378
01:44:11,790 --> 01:44:09,460
are still flown by beings that are not

2379
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:11,800
perfect ergo they make mistakes so

2380
01:44:16,830 --> 01:44:14,410
somebody pushed the wrong button or you

2381
01:44:18,660 --> 01:44:16,840
have a cascade of events that one little

2382
01:44:21,030 --> 01:44:18,670
thing didn't happen to bring it down but

2383
01:44:22,740 --> 01:44:21,040
it was yeah I mean that's the assumption

2384
01:44:25,290 --> 01:44:22,750
we have to suspend our disbelief and go

2385
01:44:26,669 --> 01:44:25,300
in that direction definitely and in its

2386
01:44:28,380 --> 01:44:26,679
you know obviously in the realm of

2387
01:44:30,780 --> 01:44:28,390
possibility but I've just never been

2388
01:44:32,820 --> 01:44:30,790
able to reconcile that to myself I mean

2389
01:44:34,530 --> 01:44:32,830
it's like the ultimate Homer Simpson

2390
01:44:36,930 --> 01:44:34,540
moment you know to come all the way

2391
01:44:38,430 --> 01:44:36,940
those long distances you know light

2392
01:44:41,070 --> 01:44:38,440
years and light years hundred come

2393
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:41,080
eventually under the light years and and

2394
01:44:48,510 --> 01:44:44,890
like hundreds of light years we don't

2395
01:44:49,620 --> 01:44:48,520
come from anywhere they come from out

2396
01:44:52,290 --> 01:44:49,630
there actually I think they're already

2397
01:44:53,490 --> 01:44:52,300
here but you know I I just they just

2398
01:44:55,410 --> 01:44:53,500
said something that's been very

2399
01:44:58,650 --> 01:44:55,420
difficult for me you know when it comes

2400
01:45:00,840 --> 01:44:58,660
to the subject of crashed UFOs it's like

2401
01:45:02,570 --> 01:45:00,850
studying an ant farm and accidentally

2402
01:45:06,419 --> 01:45:02,580
stubbing the face at the bottom of the

2403
01:45:08,430 --> 01:45:06,429
you know the ant farm it's just

2404
01:45:11,220 --> 01:45:08,440
something about it I don't know Jane

2405
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:11,230
help me out here we need to first of all

2406
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:13,210
help out our sponsors and then we'll

2407
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:14,080
figure that out

2408
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:17,410
we've got Kevin Randle and Scott Ramsey

2409
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:28,130
[Music]

2410
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:31,210
are you tired of searching for great

2411
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talk radio but the more important search

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the overall we are the gcn radio network

2413
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:41,260
hi this is Ted Anderson if you'd like to

2414
01:45:45,630 --> 01:45:43,330
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have great news gzn has created a Droid

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2425
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:06,910
again for listening to GC and live.com

2426
01:46:10,830 --> 01:46:09,370
again that's GC and live.com we the

2427
01:46:12,900 --> 01:46:10,840
people grow cotton wheat fabric

2428
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engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2429
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protect from counterfeit and carding to

2430
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a private bank having it led back at

2431
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interest

2432
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forcing taxes to service debt this

2433
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:20,200
capitalism what was Jefferson correct

2434
01:46:23,460 --> 01:46:21,850
when stating a central bank issuing the

2435
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:23,470
public currency is a greater menace to

2436
01:46:25,950 --> 01:46:24,610
the liberties of the people than a

2437
01:46:27,390 --> 01:46:25,960
standing army today understand I'm

2438
01:46:29,220 --> 01:46:27,400
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2439
01:46:32,670 --> 01:46:29,230
that explains our monetary system call

2440
01:46:35,580 --> 01:46:32,680
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2441
01:46:41,670 --> 01:46:35,590
to understand the system call 866 2 2 3

2442
01:46:44,190 --> 01:46:41,680
7 that's 800 686 to 237 how's your pH

2443
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:44,200
today are you acidic how alkaline is

2444
01:46:47,220 --> 01:46:46,330
your blood and body what is the pH of

2445
01:46:49,020 --> 01:46:47,230
the water you drink

2446
01:46:50,940 --> 01:46:49,030
we are ELCA vision and we have the

2447
01:46:52,380 --> 01:46:50,950
answers drinking pure high alkaline

2448
01:46:53,850 --> 01:46:52,390
water is one of the most important

2449
01:46:55,860 --> 01:46:53,860
factors in maintaining vibrant health

2450
01:46:57,810 --> 01:46:55,870
and high energy because bacteria and

2451
01:46:59,730 --> 01:46:57,820
viruses cannot survive an alkaline high

2452
01:47:02,310 --> 01:46:59,740
pH environment if your drinking water

2453
01:47:04,260 --> 01:47:02,320
isn't at a pH level of 8 or higher boost

2454
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it without commission plasma pH drops

2455
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2456
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2457
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2458
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and health simply add 10 drops of

2459
01:47:15,570 --> 01:47:13,900
alchemist and plasma pH drops to help

2460
01:47:18,030 --> 01:47:15,580
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2461
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2462
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:20,170
body to optimal levels order your bottle

2463
01:47:25,830 --> 01:47:22,210
of Alchemist and plasma pH drops for

2464
01:47:29,190 --> 01:47:25,840
only 2995 @al Commission comm spelled al

2465
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:29,200
K a vision comm or call eight hundred

2466
01:47:33,810 --> 01:47:31,510
five one eight seven six one five eight

2467
01:47:34,950 --> 01:47:33,820
hundred five one eight seven six one

2468
01:47:36,870 --> 01:47:34,960
five Oh

2469
01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:36,880
your body supercharge your health at

2470
01:47:46,190 --> 01:47:38,910
ELCA vision calm

2471
01:47:54,260 --> 01:47:49,920
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2472
01:48:02,160 --> 01:47:54,270
standard of paranormal radio and now

2473
01:48:04,770 --> 01:48:02,170
here's Jane Steinberg with Jean and

2474
01:48:07,410 --> 01:48:04,780
Chris in the para cast we have Kevin

2475
01:48:10,020 --> 01:48:07,420
Randle and Scott Ramsey ostensibly to

2476
01:48:12,840 --> 01:48:10,030
debate the Aztec case but we're getting

2477
01:48:15,360 --> 01:48:12,850
into more complicated subjects here like

2478
01:48:17,030 --> 01:48:15,370
the UFOs come from here do they come

2479
01:48:18,900 --> 01:48:17,040
from the dimensional portal look

2480
01:48:21,540 --> 01:48:18,910
scientists are already starting to

2481
01:48:24,690 --> 01:48:21,550
figure they might be able to swing some

2482
01:48:26,010 --> 01:48:24,700
kind of warp drive Chris I did see the

2483
01:48:27,870 --> 01:48:26,020
headline on that I need to read the

2484
01:48:31,230 --> 01:48:27,880
article that'll be a good one for forum

2485
01:48:34,050 --> 01:48:31,240
dr. Perry Capcom your first stop shop

2486
01:48:36,450 --> 01:48:34,060
for all cool cutting-edge articles and

2487
01:48:38,700 --> 01:48:36,460
comments about you know breaking topics

2488
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:38,710
and old cases all right let's get back

2489
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:41,770
to this discussion about Aztec but let's

2490
01:48:47,340 --> 01:48:44,290
get a progress report first okay Kevin

2491
01:48:49,830 --> 01:48:47,350
Randle listening to Scott Ramsey for the

2492
01:48:52,980 --> 01:48:49,840
first two thirds of the show anything he

2493
01:48:54,990 --> 01:48:52,990
say sway you at all changed your mind

2494
01:48:58,260 --> 01:48:55,000
correct any assumptions you had about

2495
01:49:01,170 --> 01:48:58,270
the Aztec case the problem remains the

2496
01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:01,180
same that we've always had I'm just not

2497
01:49:06,570 --> 01:49:03,730
thrilled with some of the witnesses

2498
01:49:07,620 --> 01:49:06,580
sistas Doug Noland or Ken Farley you

2499
01:49:09,900 --> 01:49:07,630
know I need to see more information

2500
01:49:12,300 --> 01:49:09,910
about that I'm always willing to look at

2501
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:12,310
information like that and Scott beer

2502
01:49:18,180 --> 01:49:16,090
under no obligation to share with me for

2503
01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:18,190
any reason whatsoever but it just seems

2504
01:49:26,130 --> 01:49:21,250
that that the whole case hinges on a

2505
01:49:28,980 --> 01:49:26,140
very very tenuous thread and we need to

2506
01:49:30,690 --> 01:49:28,990
see something that is pre Scully to kind

2507
01:49:32,220 --> 01:49:30,700
of drive us forward and we really don't

2508
01:49:34,770 --> 01:49:32,230
have that we have people who came

2509
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:34,780
forward after Scully lots of people came

2510
01:49:38,490 --> 01:49:36,970
forward after Scully's book came out and

2511
01:49:40,740 --> 01:49:38,500
talked about this but we really don't

2512
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:40,750
have the good stuff and we haven't we

2513
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:43,810
haven't really talked about the one

2514
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:47,370
fellow from Aztec who who contacted me

2515
01:49:53,100 --> 01:49:51,570
and or posted a bunch of stuff about the

2516
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:53,110
Monty shriver

2517
01:49:56,850 --> 01:49:55,210
yes I guess he proposed a bunch of stuff

2518
01:49:59,010 --> 01:49:56,860
about Aztec is what I was groping for

2519
01:50:00,540 --> 01:49:59,020
but yes good old Monty Schreiber

2520
01:50:02,430 --> 01:50:00,550
what about him explain this to our

2521
01:50:04,050 --> 01:50:02,440
listeners because we are playing a

2522
01:50:07,020 --> 01:50:04,060
little bit of inside baseball here

2523
01:50:09,420 --> 01:50:07,030
well Monte Schreiber is a great guy he

2524
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:09,430
works down the same well he's retired

2525
01:50:15,060 --> 01:50:11,650
now he worked down at the University of

2526
01:50:16,530 --> 01:50:15,070
New Mexico in las cruces and monkeys

2527
01:50:19,590 --> 01:50:16,540
from the aztec area

2528
01:50:22,590 --> 01:50:19,600
he wrote a 17 page rebuttal to our book

2529
01:50:24,150 --> 01:50:22,600
and in his case where I kind of kind of

2530
01:50:26,220 --> 01:50:24,160
get on you guys for not reading the book

2531
01:50:27,750 --> 01:50:26,230
in detail monkey did read the book in

2532
01:50:30,660 --> 01:50:27,760
detail and cites

2533
01:50:33,780 --> 01:50:30,670
page number paragraph number and things

2534
01:50:36,300 --> 01:50:33,790
that are said and I'm just about 3/4 of

2535
01:50:39,450 --> 01:50:36,310
the way done responding to his 17 page

2536
01:50:41,640 --> 01:50:39,460
was my 22 page might be 25 when I'm done

2537
01:50:44,820 --> 01:50:41,650
he brings up good points but he's more

2538
01:50:47,490 --> 01:50:44,830
picking on the details of the book where

2539
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:47,500
I call Mount Taylor it's really Taylor

2540
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:49,810
mountain again I'm citing and that's the

2541
01:50:53,430 --> 01:50:51,850
same part where Manuel Sand of all is

2542
01:50:56,220 --> 01:50:53,440
I'm interviewing Suzanne and I are

2543
01:50:57,900 --> 01:50:56,230
interviewing Johnny Hernandez I should

2544
01:51:00,150 --> 01:50:57,910
have put it in quotes to show that it

2545
01:51:02,490 --> 01:51:00,160
was Johnny telling the Mount Taylor

2546
01:51:04,410 --> 01:51:02,500
instead of Taylor Mountain but you know

2547
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:04,420
to marnie point on those type of things

2548
01:51:08,670 --> 01:51:06,730
he's right I'm wrong God let me

2549
01:51:11,730 --> 01:51:08,680
interject here that when I was reading

2550
01:51:13,140 --> 01:51:11,740
his rebuttal to your book I thought some

2551
01:51:14,550 --> 01:51:13,150
of the same things and a lot some of

2552
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:14,560
this stuff is very trivial and

2553
01:51:18,510 --> 01:51:16,930
unimportant to discussion of a case and

2554
01:51:21,690 --> 01:51:18,520
that was one of the things that struck

2555
01:51:24,450 --> 01:51:21,700
me it it really is is irrelevant to

2556
01:51:26,610 --> 01:51:24,460
trying to figure out whether or not

2557
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:26,620
Aztec was real so I agree with you on

2558
01:51:30,990 --> 01:51:28,690
that point yeah and you know he brought

2559
01:51:32,910 --> 01:51:31,000
up a point he said well yeah I'm talking

2560
01:51:34,500 --> 01:51:32,920
and moving the craft the section of the

2561
01:51:37,260 --> 01:51:34,510
book Suzanne and I went out did the

2562
01:51:40,050 --> 01:51:37,270
reenactment with Bill Metzger and all

2563
01:51:41,460 --> 01:51:40,060
that was based on the museum saying you

2564
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:41,470
know hey how'd they get that out of

2565
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:42,610
there and that's what we've been asking

2566
01:51:47,370 --> 01:51:44,410
ourselves that question for a long time

2567
01:51:49,980 --> 01:51:47,380
and so we we did research thank you

2568
01:51:52,350 --> 01:51:49,990
Aztec Pioneer Museum and came up with

2569
01:51:54,660 --> 01:51:52,360
the fact that highway today it's 550

2570
01:51:57,060 --> 01:51:54,670
back years before it was for forty and

2571
01:51:58,950 --> 01:51:57,070
forty eight it wasn't complete it was

2572
01:52:02,220 --> 01:51:58,960
actually built to get people down to

2573
01:52:05,430 --> 01:52:02,230
Chaco Canyon because you know they were

2574
01:52:08,190 --> 01:52:05,440
uncovering the the the structure down

2575
01:52:11,430 --> 01:52:08,200
there Marty came back and said no that's

2576
01:52:12,990 --> 01:52:11,440
not true that road 44 was complete in 48

2577
01:52:15,060 --> 01:52:13,000
my response

2578
01:52:18,060 --> 01:52:15,070
at the money is thanks you just made our

2579
01:52:20,550 --> 01:52:18,070
life a lot easier moving it down 44 it

2580
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:20,560
would be a cakewalk but thanks to the

2581
01:52:25,380 --> 01:52:22,210
Bureau of Land Management just sending

2582
01:52:28,050 --> 01:52:25,390
us new maps Monty is off a year that

2583
01:52:29,670 --> 01:52:28,060
road was not complete in 48 it's it's

2584
01:52:32,790 --> 01:52:29,680
like Kevin said it's kind of trivial

2585
01:52:35,070 --> 01:52:32,800
stuff back and forth but I I appreciated

2586
01:52:37,050 --> 01:52:35,080
it because it you know it for the next

2587
01:52:40,320 --> 01:52:37,060
reprint he showed me some spelling

2588
01:52:41,610 --> 01:52:40,330
errors too so I appreciate that well one

2589
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:41,620
of the things that's always intrigued me

2590
01:52:47,700 --> 01:52:44,970
about the case is the apparent

2591
01:52:49,650 --> 01:52:47,710
infrastructure that was left behind the

2592
01:52:51,960 --> 01:52:49,660
concrete pad

2593
01:52:55,800 --> 01:52:51,970
the physical evidence obviously in these

2594
01:52:58,320 --> 01:52:55,810
cases or potential physical evidence is

2595
01:52:59,820 --> 01:52:58,330
really important in my book and Scott

2596
01:53:01,860 --> 01:52:59,830
why don't you talk a little bit for

2597
01:53:04,950 --> 01:53:01,870
people folks out there that aren't up to

2598
01:53:07,980 --> 01:53:04,960
speed on some of the again the details

2599
01:53:10,590 --> 01:53:07,990
of this particular case tell us about

2600
01:53:12,570 --> 01:53:10,600
the infrastructure and claims have that

2601
01:53:15,570 --> 01:53:12,580
have been made about it well one is the

2602
01:53:17,310 --> 01:53:15,580
the concrete slab which I find it

2603
01:53:20,010 --> 01:53:17,320
intriguing it's there it's again it's

2604
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:20,020
not a smoking gun to anything it has no

2605
01:53:25,770 --> 01:53:22,930
place there the gentlemen charged that

2606
01:53:27,570 --> 01:53:25,780
we refer to in the book who was never at

2607
01:53:31,080 --> 01:53:27,580
the crash site by the way he never left

2608
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:31,090
Walker he said he coordinated a recovery

2609
01:53:35,580 --> 01:53:33,370
effort and basically his job was to

2610
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:35,590
worry about personnel files and who was

2611
01:53:41,130 --> 01:53:38,410
at the crash site but he did tell us we

2612
01:53:43,230 --> 01:53:41,140
interviewed him to be cognizant of a

2613
01:53:44,070 --> 01:53:43,240
concrete footer he didn't use the word

2614
01:53:46,470 --> 01:53:44,080
flap

2615
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:46,480
I know Stein that had mentioned it we

2616
01:53:52,260 --> 01:53:48,970
had never been able to find it Randy

2617
01:53:54,390 --> 01:53:52,270
Barnes local gentleman that used to live

2618
01:53:56,370 --> 01:53:54,400
in Aztec went out there with rebar and

2619
01:54:00,270 --> 01:53:56,380
poke through the silt until he found it

2620
01:54:03,330 --> 01:54:00,280
it was approximately the same dimensions

2621
01:54:05,430 --> 01:54:03,340
it Steinman talked about we took samples

2622
01:54:09,780 --> 01:54:05,440
of the concrete slab sent him to a

2623
01:54:14,180 --> 01:54:09,790
concrete lab unless we have $25,000 to

2624
01:54:19,380 --> 01:54:14,190
do a leach test its dating it earlier

2625
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:19,390
than 48 or very much later than 48 is

2626
01:54:24,270 --> 01:54:21,010
going to be very expensive the lab

2627
01:54:26,820 --> 01:54:24,280
granted us so much lab time we come in

2628
01:54:29,010 --> 01:54:26,830
to the point that it's about that era

2629
01:54:31,260 --> 01:54:29,020
and as we all know because it was a

2630
01:54:34,530 --> 01:54:31,270
concrete lab that did the test that

2631
01:54:38,340 --> 01:54:34,540
rebar is all date stamped and it is

2632
01:54:40,590 --> 01:54:38,350
dated prior to 48 but rebar sits around

2633
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:40,600
in inventories for many many years

2634
01:54:46,200 --> 01:54:43,210
especially during the war and after the

2635
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:46,210
war so the concrete slab is an

2636
01:54:50,940 --> 01:54:48,330
interesting piece of physical evidence

2637
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:50,950
it's not a compressor pad it's not a

2638
01:54:55,500 --> 01:54:53,290
well cap like Carl phlox we drilled a

2639
01:54:57,300 --> 01:54:55,510
hole through it to do a core sample but

2640
01:54:59,340 --> 01:54:57,310
again you know what the hell's are doing

2641
01:55:02,940 --> 01:54:59,350
you know why don't you describe why you

2642
01:55:04,410 --> 01:55:02,950
would have a concrete pad - okay yeah up

2643
01:55:06,660 --> 01:55:04,420
crane that would be lifting a heavy

2644
01:55:09,120 --> 01:55:06,670
object did you do any sort of tests to

2645
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:09,130
find if there were metal abraded on to

2646
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:11,050
the concrete oh yeah it's full of I

2647
01:55:15,780 --> 01:55:13,690
forget I have in the book 5/8 3/4 rebar

2648
01:55:17,550 --> 01:55:15,790
and tensile rod so whatever it was

2649
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:17,560
poured for its and I nine and

2650
01:55:22,260 --> 01:55:20,050
three-quarter inches thick the gentleman

2651
01:55:24,540 --> 01:55:22,270
George told us at delay was made when

2652
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:24,550
this mystery road was cut to get you out

2653
01:55:31,590 --> 01:55:27,010
to the crash site and it caught a

2654
01:55:33,570 --> 01:55:31,600
concrete footer had to be poured to

2655
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:33,580
support one of the legs of the crane or

2656
01:55:38,760 --> 01:55:36,850
possibly two legs of the crane and he

2657
01:55:41,250 --> 01:55:38,770
said I know that delayed things so look

2658
01:55:43,170 --> 01:55:41,260
for that he was giving us a whole it

2659
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:43,180
gave us a whole actually a whole list of

2660
01:55:49,350 --> 01:55:47,170
things to look for that was found

2661
01:55:51,270 --> 01:55:49,360
yes it's heavily reinforced I forget

2662
01:55:54,300 --> 01:55:51,280
what the lab says it would it would hold

2663
01:55:56,340 --> 01:55:54,310
per square inch much more than you could

2664
01:55:58,850 --> 01:55:56,350
imagine for a compressor pad and it's

2665
01:56:01,140 --> 01:55:58,860
much smaller than a compressor pad and

2666
01:56:03,870 --> 01:56:01,150
by drilling through it we proved it

2667
01:56:06,090 --> 01:56:03,880
wasn't a wellhead or a well cap nor

2668
01:56:09,900 --> 01:56:06,100
would you have one at that up on top of

2669
01:56:11,730 --> 01:56:09,910
a Mesa you'd have one at the base like I

2670
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:11,740
say it's an interesting piece I think it

2671
01:56:16,470 --> 01:56:14,290
deserves mention as part of the story I

2672
01:56:18,660 --> 01:56:16,480
don't know even with the leach test

2673
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:18,670
you're going to get it right at 1948

2674
01:56:23,100 --> 01:56:20,770
some say yes some say you get it within

2675
01:56:24,570 --> 01:56:23,110
six months a legion test pilot way is

2676
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:24,580
there's no there's no apparent reason

2677
01:56:28,260 --> 01:56:26,770
why something like that would be there

2678
01:56:31,140 --> 01:56:28,270
out in the middle of BF nowhere

2679
01:56:32,970 --> 01:56:31,150
no correct me if I'm wrong I mean I kind

2680
01:56:35,610 --> 01:56:32,980
of know the area and you would really

2681
01:56:38,370 --> 01:56:35,620
need a reason support something like

2682
01:56:40,740 --> 01:56:38,380
that in the location that it's found it

2683
01:56:42,750 --> 01:56:40,750
was poured with Portland style concrete

2684
01:56:45,450 --> 01:56:42,760
and the grouting in it meaning the the

2685
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:45,460
rocks are our local sifted rocks where

2686
01:56:49,110 --> 01:56:47,290
they took the silt nice they took the

2687
01:56:51,570 --> 01:56:49,120
little pebbles and what not mix that

2688
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:51,580
with the concrete support it does look

2689
01:56:55,530 --> 01:56:53,650
like whatever it was done for it was

2690
01:56:57,750 --> 01:56:55,540
done in a hurry and it was done for a

2691
01:57:02,040 --> 01:56:57,760
tremendous amount of weight so no

2692
01:57:04,680 --> 01:57:02,050
records from local cement companies any

2693
01:57:06,720 --> 01:57:04,690
of the you know the the the people that

2694
01:57:08,730 --> 01:57:06,730
would pour concrete at the time there's

2695
01:57:10,980 --> 01:57:08,740
no mention of records or any sort of

2696
01:57:13,230 --> 01:57:10,990
documentation about who actually may

2697
01:57:14,670 --> 01:57:13,240
have been hired locally obviously though

2698
01:57:17,100 --> 01:57:14,680
the army may have come in and done it

2699
01:57:19,860 --> 01:57:17,110
itself but if not some of the local must

2700
01:57:22,020 --> 01:57:19,870
be so somehow gotten a truck out there

2701
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:22,030
or mixer and poured the thing right

2702
01:57:26,700 --> 01:57:24,730
we're gonna pour some commercials on you

2703
01:57:27,930 --> 01:57:26,710
right now folks not great but we're

2704
01:57:30,810 --> 01:57:27,940
going to give you some special

2705
01:57:36,930 --> 01:57:30,820
announcements with Scott Ramsey Kevin

2706
01:57:36,940 --> 01:57:40,310
[Music]

2707
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:44,490
is there a secret UFO agenda estranged

2708
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creatures from the darkest corners of

2709
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the mind roam the earth is there

2710
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evidence for mind control time travel or

2711
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devious government conspiracies find out

2712
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the inside scoop on the latest

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conspiracies paranormal activity and at

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14 phenomena when you subscribe to Tim

2715
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Beckley's conspiracy girl it's

2716
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jam-packed with stories special book and

2717
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DVD promotions and the best news

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especially free sent right to your

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2720
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2722
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2724
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quantitative easing unemployment at

2725
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2726
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2727
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of US Treasuries at the end of 2008 the

2728
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time of tarp the national debt was at

2729
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eleven trillion gold trading around $850

2730
01:58:57,020 --> 01:58:55,440
per ounce close to 2012 the national

2731
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debt exceeded sixteen point four

2732
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trillion gold doubled to $1,600 promised

2733
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the 20 trillion threshold for the

2734
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national debt is inevitable politicians

2735
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in Washington have a ferocious appetite

2736
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for spending and stimulus what's worse a

2737
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printing press to finance 100 years ago

2738
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we had a gold standard to limit this

2739
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madness but now you have to adopt your

2740
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own gold standard don't be fooled with

2741
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paper promises get Midas resources 10

2742
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merchants now accept bitcoins plus

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enter the Bitcoin market and get paid

2748
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2750
02:00:33,590 --> 02:00:32,850
world at cloud hashing dot-com just like

2751
02:00:36,860 --> 02:00:33,600
it sounds

2752
02:00:39,760 --> 02:00:36,870
cloud hashing dot-com that cloud hashing

2753
02:00:42,260 --> 02:00:39,770
com we mine your business

2754
02:00:44,480 --> 02:00:42,270
digestive health is the key to wellness

2755
02:00:44,930 --> 02:00:44,490
and elimination of toxins that bears

2756
02:00:46,919 --> 02:00:44,940
repeating

2757
02:00:48,419 --> 02:00:46,929
digestive health is the key

2758
02:00:51,449 --> 02:00:48,429
to wellness and elimination of toxins

2759
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:51,459
and pro-am one daily probiotic cleanse

2760
02:00:56,129 --> 02:00:54,010
is the key to digestive health probiem

2761
02:00:58,140 --> 02:00:56,139
one is a powerful liquid probiotic

2762
02:01:00,899 --> 02:00:58,150
strong enough to cleanse gentle enough

2763
02:01:02,969 --> 02:01:00,909
to use every day pro em1 as dairy wheat

2764
02:01:04,739 --> 02:01:02,979
and soy free contains all-natural and

2765
02:01:06,359 --> 02:01:04,749
certified organic ingredients contains

2766
02:01:07,979 --> 02:01:06,369
no preservatives or animal products

2767
02:01:09,989 --> 02:01:07,989
supports a healthy digestive and immune

2768
02:01:11,790 --> 02:01:09,999
system supports weight loss improves

2769
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:11,800
absorption of food nutrients aids and

2770
02:01:15,810 --> 02:01:13,570
controlling yeast infections is never

2771
02:01:17,459 --> 02:01:15,820
freeze-dried and uses three groups of

2772
02:01:19,709 --> 02:01:17,469
live viable beneficial microbes to

2773
02:01:21,689 --> 02:01:19,719
cleanse and remove toxins order pro am

2774
02:01:27,089 --> 02:01:21,699
one daily probiotic cleanse at Tarragona

2775
02:01:30,299 --> 02:01:27,099
calm spelled te ra gan IX calm Tarragona

2776
02:01:32,609 --> 02:01:30,309
calm or call toll-free 866 three six

2777
02:01:34,979 --> 02:01:32,619
nine three six seven eight that's eight

2778
02:01:41,339 --> 02:01:34,989
six six three six nine three six seven

2779
02:01:43,319 --> 02:01:41,349
eight pro em1 the raw probiotic we'd

2780
02:01:45,330 --> 02:01:43,329
like to hear from you if you have a

2781
02:01:49,290 --> 02:01:45,340
comment a question about the para cast

2782
02:01:52,620 --> 02:01:49,300
sent it to news at the para cast calm

2783
02:01:54,750 --> 02:01:52,630
that's news at the para cast calm and

2784
02:01:58,140 --> 02:01:54,760
don't forget to visit our famous para

2785
02:02:03,029 --> 02:01:58,150
cast community forums at forum dr parra

2786
02:02:06,390 --> 02:02:03,039
cast calm okay back to pouring that

2787
02:02:08,669 --> 02:02:06,400
concrete Kevin Randall Scott Ramsey with

2788
02:02:10,979 --> 02:02:08,679
gene and Chris Scott you you wouldn't

2789
02:02:12,540 --> 02:02:10,989
have needed a concrete truck out there

2790
02:02:15,270 --> 02:02:12,550
to pour this you would have needed

2791
02:02:18,149 --> 02:02:15,280
sufficient water a mixing trough some

2792
02:02:21,270 --> 02:02:18,159
type of screen sifter to sift out the

2793
02:02:22,859 --> 02:02:21,280
local rock mix it put up some forms pour

2794
02:02:24,629 --> 02:02:22,869
it would have been a big deal all you

2795
02:02:26,969 --> 02:02:24,639
needed was it was a little mixer or

2796
02:02:29,310 --> 02:02:26,979
something out there you didn't have with

2797
02:02:31,319 --> 02:02:29,320
my hand yeah when we installed the

2798
02:02:33,689 --> 02:02:31,329
plaque out there we did it was you know

2799
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:33,699
just a trough of Portland concrete and

2800
02:02:37,350 --> 02:02:35,650
some water and well so you put a plaque

2801
02:02:38,699 --> 02:02:37,360
out there already yeah there's been a

2802
02:02:43,169 --> 02:02:38,709
plaque out there for a number of years

2803
02:02:45,390 --> 02:02:43,179
Wow the the the plaque itself nine and

2804
02:02:48,959 --> 02:02:45,400
three and look at dimension 2 9 and 3/4

2805
02:02:51,060 --> 02:02:48,969
thick this was on BLM land let's keep

2806
02:02:52,679 --> 02:02:51,070
that in mind when we went to drill the

2807
02:02:54,509 --> 02:02:52,689
hole we had to go to the Bureau of Land

2808
02:02:56,100 --> 02:02:54,519
Management technically we're not allowed

2809
02:02:58,229 --> 02:02:56,110
to go out there and walk around for

2810
02:03:00,060 --> 02:02:58,239
commercial purposes unless you you have

2811
02:03:00,720 --> 02:03:00,070
a permit people go out there and film

2812
02:03:02,220 --> 02:03:00,730
documents

2813
02:03:04,050 --> 02:03:02,230
all the time if they get caught they're

2814
02:03:06,330 --> 02:03:04,060
in trouble I've only been involved in

2815
02:03:09,930 --> 02:03:06,340
one film company that has done that with

2816
02:03:12,030 --> 02:03:09,940
a permit but we had to go to the BLM and

2817
02:03:14,850 --> 02:03:12,040
say here's the slab here's a picture of

2818
02:03:17,340 --> 02:03:14,860
it don't a pigeon went out to the site

2819
02:03:19,110 --> 02:03:17,350
with us from the BLM and says we own the

2820
02:03:20,790 --> 02:03:19,120
land there's no reason for this to be

2821
02:03:22,950 --> 02:03:20,800
here if you want to drill it have at it

2822
02:03:25,290 --> 02:03:22,960
we had a drilling company come in drill

2823
02:03:27,660 --> 02:03:25,300
the core sample we took the sample sent

2824
02:03:29,490 --> 02:03:27,670
it to a lab it technically speaking if I

2825
02:03:31,800 --> 02:03:29,500
wanted to lift the thing up tomorrow and

2826
02:03:33,300 --> 02:03:31,810
throw it on the back of a flatbed or a

2827
02:03:35,550 --> 02:03:33,310
trailer and haul it out of there we

2828
02:03:38,220 --> 02:03:35,560
could because a BLM says it's not ours

2829
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:38,230
we have no idea what it's here is there

2830
02:03:43,140 --> 02:03:40,930
any other earthly reason why it would be

2831
02:03:45,330 --> 02:03:43,150
there other than to be used for the

2832
02:03:47,940 --> 02:03:45,340
purpose of perhaps transporting this

2833
02:03:49,979 --> 02:03:47,950
craft well it could be there for the

2834
02:03:51,450 --> 02:03:49,989
purpose of having something extremely

2835
02:03:53,610 --> 02:03:51,460
heavy that has nothing to do with a

2836
02:03:55,500 --> 02:03:53,620
flying saucer but the key thing is it

2837
02:03:57,990 --> 02:03:55,510
has nothing to do with a compressor pad

2838
02:04:00,060 --> 02:03:58,000
that is in three your listeners that is

2839
02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:00,070
heavy heavy to this day oil and gas

2840
02:04:04,680 --> 02:04:02,290
you've got natural gas out there you've

2841
02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:04,690
got crude oil you don't drill a hole

2842
02:04:09,060 --> 02:04:06,610
through a Mesa to get to the natural gas

2843
02:04:10,860 --> 02:04:09,070
you go to the bottom of the Mesa down

2844
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:10,870
closer to the ground and you drill your

2845
02:04:16,410 --> 02:04:14,650
whole compressor pads 60 40 50 feet in

2846
02:04:20,610 --> 02:04:16,420
length this thing is a square meter

2847
02:04:23,580 --> 02:04:20,620
basically 39 by 39 by 9 and 3/4 so it

2848
02:04:26,070 --> 02:04:23,590
serves no part was that small I was

2849
02:04:28,770 --> 02:04:26,080
under the impression was larger no no it

2850
02:04:31,950 --> 02:04:28,780
is almost it's it's a square meter it's

2851
02:04:34,620 --> 02:04:31,960
almost there to support is some type of

2852
02:04:37,470 --> 02:04:34,630
crane believe me we've gone through the

2853
02:04:39,270 --> 02:04:37,480
the drill of Land Management even the

2854
02:04:41,820 --> 02:04:39,280
Bureau of Reclamation which had some

2855
02:04:44,550 --> 02:04:41,830
rights just north of there which is more

2856
02:04:46,620 --> 02:04:44,560
your power and utilities nobody can

2857
02:04:49,890 --> 02:04:46,630
explain it the El Paso oil workers

2858
02:04:53,970 --> 02:04:49,900
nobody Williams oil company no dougen

2859
02:04:55,890 --> 02:04:53,980
oil company no Shawn Brule no nobody can

2860
02:04:57,630 --> 02:04:55,900
they claim to it or explain why it's out

2861
02:04:59,310 --> 02:04:57,640
there and and how are you made aware of

2862
02:05:01,650 --> 02:04:59,320
this when did this actual piece of

2863
02:05:04,290 --> 02:05:01,660
potential physical evidence surface and

2864
02:05:06,390 --> 02:05:04,300
in in the story and the investigation in

2865
02:05:07,860 --> 02:05:06,400
our interview with George I said we

2866
02:05:10,290 --> 02:05:07,870
don't even know for at the right site

2867
02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:10,300
and he gave us a couple of things and

2868
02:05:13,470 --> 02:05:11,650
when he mentioned the cut and wrote I

2869
02:05:14,470 --> 02:05:13,480
said well yeah it's a funny thing we're

2870
02:05:16,450 --> 02:05:14,480
at an area that there

2871
02:05:18,610 --> 02:05:16,460
is a road that's cut by the way that

2872
02:05:22,030 --> 02:05:18,620
doesn't appear unless they just added it

2873
02:05:23,650 --> 02:05:22,040
to any Bureau of Land Management Maps

2874
02:05:25,690 --> 02:05:23,660
which they add they update him every

2875
02:05:28,720 --> 02:05:25,700
couple of years and we've been to the

2876
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:28,730
site with the BLM and this lab is at the

2877
02:05:33,370 --> 02:05:30,650
figure kind of like a little cul-de-sac

2878
02:05:33,910 --> 02:05:33,380
as where somebody has cut a road into a

2879
02:05:36,729 --> 02:05:33,920
Mesa

2880
02:05:38,470 --> 02:05:36,739
this is at the the end of the cul-de-sac

2881
02:05:41,220 --> 02:05:38,480
where it looked like it was supporting

2882
02:05:44,170 --> 02:05:41,230
something so you knew about the actual

2883
02:05:45,550 --> 02:05:44,180
location or the site before you were

2884
02:05:47,410 --> 02:05:45,560
given the information to go look for

2885
02:05:49,960 --> 02:05:47,420
this little pad and then you were able

2886
02:05:52,570 --> 02:05:49,970
to find it correct me if I'm wrong we we

2887
02:05:55,420 --> 02:05:52,580
thought we were at the right spot based

2888
02:05:57,850 --> 02:05:55,430
on what locals were telling us right we

2889
02:05:59,350 --> 02:05:57,860
weren't sure we thought we're at the

2890
02:06:01,390 --> 02:05:59,360
right spot but then you got the

2891
02:06:03,550 --> 02:06:01,400
information later about the pad and then

2892
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:03,560
that confirmed it for you yep and then

2893
02:06:08,890 --> 02:06:06,890
Randi or a year or two later confirmed

2894
02:06:10,690 --> 02:06:08,900
that Steinman was talking about a slab

2895
02:06:13,630 --> 02:06:10,700
this time has actually got a little map

2896
02:06:16,479 --> 02:06:13,640
drawn in his in his book UFO crash at

2897
02:06:18,400 --> 02:06:16,489
Aztec and that they all matched up

2898
02:06:22,180 --> 02:06:18,410
pretty good so what do you think of that

2899
02:06:24,580 --> 02:06:22,190
Kevin does that is that like a point in

2900
02:06:28,060 --> 02:06:24,590
the positive side of the column here at

2901
02:06:29,350 --> 02:06:28,070
this point not really no I what else

2902
02:06:31,750 --> 02:06:29,360
could a path like that have been used

2903
02:06:34,810 --> 02:06:31,760
for why would somebody go to the to the

2904
02:06:37,960 --> 02:06:34,820
bother of putting a meter square nine

2905
02:06:41,500 --> 02:06:37,970
inch thick pad on top of a Mesa in bf

2906
02:06:43,900 --> 02:06:41,510
nowhere North Eastern New Mexico I have

2907
02:06:47,020 --> 02:06:43,910
no clue I mean that's really not a fair

2908
02:06:48,970 --> 02:06:47,030
question but but well it is to me I've

2909
02:06:51,130 --> 02:06:48,980
been out you know in areas like that and

2910
02:06:53,110 --> 02:06:51,140
to have a mean I'm supposed to come up

2911
02:06:55,890 --> 02:06:53,120
with why somebody pull report a plate of

2912
02:06:58,510 --> 02:06:55,900
concrete in some well I don't know why

2913
02:07:01,090 --> 02:06:58,520
I'm racking my brain trying to come up

2914
02:07:03,580 --> 02:07:01,100
with some rationale to do that and I I'm

2915
02:07:06,430 --> 02:07:03,590
coming up blank so I was hoping help me

2916
02:07:09,430 --> 02:07:06,440
no I'm not okay I can't help you on that

2917
02:07:12,190 --> 02:07:09,440
way well I think that's pretty cool

2918
02:07:14,979 --> 02:07:12,200
myself I think physical evidence that's

2919
02:07:18,490 --> 02:07:14,989
gained right now it's all it's all you

2920
02:07:22,390 --> 02:07:18,500
have is a concrete pad true God himself

2921
02:07:26,680 --> 02:07:22,400
said that the rebar is dated prior to

2922
02:07:28,060 --> 02:07:26,690
1948 Scott also said that these things

2923
02:07:31,840 --> 02:07:28,070
lay around so the fact that the

2924
02:07:34,060 --> 02:07:31,850
three bars dated part in 1948 may not be

2925
02:07:36,940 --> 02:07:34,070
relevant I'm thinking we need to wait

2926
02:07:38,440 --> 02:07:36,950
for and I understand the the monetary

2927
02:07:39,760 --> 02:07:38,450
problem with the task but we need to

2928
02:07:42,250 --> 02:07:39,770
wait for the test before we draw any

2929
02:07:44,500 --> 02:07:42,260
conclusions and that that can narrow it

2930
02:07:47,050 --> 02:07:44,510
down to within six months six months

2931
02:07:48,100 --> 02:07:47,060
while that testing the actual concrete

2932
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:48,110
mm-hm

2933
02:07:51,930 --> 02:07:49,610
or the AG would get within the concrete

2934
02:07:55,150 --> 02:07:51,940
know that's doing that's actually it's a

2935
02:07:57,070 --> 02:07:55,160
if you're bombarded the the actual

2936
02:07:59,350 --> 02:07:57,080
Portland concrete in the aggregates

2937
02:08:01,600 --> 02:07:59,360
million placements also we we can't we

2938
02:08:03,970 --> 02:08:01,610
can't age that but what I would say the

2939
02:08:07,410 --> 02:08:03,980
it's kind of likely the question of the

2940
02:08:10,840 --> 02:08:07,420
alien autopsy film where they had a

2941
02:08:14,020 --> 02:08:10,850
decoding from Kodak and a good decoding

2942
02:08:16,270 --> 02:08:14,030
from Kodak was 1947 but Kodak leaf

2943
02:08:17,410 --> 02:08:16,280
cycled the tight coating every twenty

2944
02:08:21,070 --> 02:08:17,420
years so the film could have been from

2945
02:08:23,110 --> 02:08:21,080
1927 and the people with the alien

2946
02:08:25,630 --> 02:08:23,120
autopsy film never allowed the film to

2947
02:08:27,610 --> 02:08:25,640
be tested by Kodak to determine because

2948
02:08:28,930 --> 02:08:27,620
they get to German pretty much when it

2949
02:08:30,730 --> 02:08:28,940
had been developed and that would be a

2950
02:08:33,640 --> 02:08:30,740
critical thing to know yeah obviously

2951
02:08:36,070 --> 02:08:33,650
yeah you know and and if it dated from

2952
02:08:39,220 --> 02:08:36,080
1947 well that's a very nice piece of

2953
02:08:40,690 --> 02:08:39,230
evidence but without that dating didn't

2954
02:08:43,780 --> 02:08:40,700
really the code being there doesn't

2955
02:08:46,660 --> 02:08:43,790
prove that the film was exposed in 1947

2956
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:46,670
only that the coding was for the right

2957
02:08:51,700 --> 02:08:49,610
year so all I'm saying is on this it's

2958
02:08:53,500 --> 02:08:51,710
an interesting piece of evidence but

2959
02:08:56,650 --> 02:08:53,510
right now we can draw no conclusion from

2960
02:08:58,780 --> 02:08:56,660
it right well back back to the original

2961
02:09:01,780 --> 02:08:58,790
question the gene post for you Scott

2962
02:09:03,670 --> 02:09:01,790
what you know what else has come up

2963
02:09:05,860 --> 02:09:03,680
after the book and what are the leads

2964
02:09:08,350 --> 02:09:05,870
are you chasing down right now an

2965
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:08,360
interesting one that I'm talking to a

2966
02:09:12,520 --> 02:09:10,610
gentleman he's very very sharp in his

2967
02:09:15,160 --> 02:09:12,530
mind that I guess the body's starting to

2968
02:09:18,010 --> 02:09:15,170
go he lives down in Bullhead City the

2969
02:09:20,230 --> 02:09:18,020
gentleman that worked at Los Alamos we

2970
02:09:24,610 --> 02:09:20,240
kind of got sidetracked on that either

2971
02:09:26,950 --> 02:09:24,620
in 48 or 49 late winter we can't at this

2972
02:09:29,350 --> 02:09:26,960
point nail it down to what date although

2973
02:09:33,010 --> 02:09:29,360
he gave me a lead that we could look at

2974
02:09:36,160 --> 02:09:33,020
the get real close to the date they were

2975
02:09:39,310 --> 02:09:36,170
on standard patrol at Los Alamos this is

2976
02:09:40,690 --> 02:09:39,320
the time that the green orbs for a lack

2977
02:09:41,830 --> 02:09:40,700
of a better word I hate to call them

2978
02:09:45,010 --> 02:09:41,840
that but the green orbs are

2979
02:09:47,020 --> 02:09:45,020
all over Cuba New Mexico Los Alamos is

2980
02:09:50,530 --> 02:09:47,030
for fire they're green you have the

2981
02:09:52,479 --> 02:09:50,540
green fireballs and you know they even

2982
02:09:55,959 --> 02:09:52,489
teller is brought into the loop on that

2983
02:09:59,080 --> 02:09:55,969
the Atomic Energy Commission notes on

2984
02:10:00,700 --> 02:09:59,090
those are kind of interesting this

2985
02:10:03,070 --> 02:10:00,710
gentleman says yeah we had the green

2986
02:10:07,479 --> 02:10:03,080
fireballs but then one night we had at

2987
02:10:09,370 --> 02:10:07,489
the main gate a huge UFO sighting let's

2988
02:10:11,530 --> 02:10:09,380
proceed with that as we progress to our

2989
02:10:14,470 --> 02:10:11,540
final two segments mm-hmm

2990
02:10:17,350 --> 02:10:14,480
the book is the Aztec incident pro and

2991
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:17,360
con with Scott Ramsay and Kevin Randall

2992
02:10:31,650 --> 02:10:26,780
[Music]

2993
02:10:34,860 --> 02:10:31,660
the GC and radio network providing the

2994
02:10:39,570 --> 02:10:34,870
world with hard-hitting talk radio G C

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[Music]

3094
02:14:48,740 --> 02:14:46,199
hi this is nuclear physicist lecturer

3095
02:14:52,850 --> 02:14:48,750
Stanton Friedman you are listening to

3096
02:15:00,709 --> 02:14:52,860
the barricades to the gold standard a

3097
02:15:03,470 --> 02:15:00,719
paranormal radio with Gina and Chris and

3098
02:15:06,259 --> 02:15:03,480
the power cast were as they say winding

3099
02:15:07,970 --> 02:15:06,269
down but a lot to discuss and I think

3100
02:15:10,640 --> 02:15:07,980
when we mentioned before that when it

3101
02:15:12,620 --> 02:15:10,650
comes to the Aztec incident perhaps a

3102
02:15:14,899 --> 02:15:12,630
show of this nature would have to be

3103
02:15:17,959 --> 02:15:14,909
doubled in size to get to all the nooks

3104
02:15:20,750 --> 02:15:17,969
and the crannies and the mining details

3105
02:15:25,100 --> 02:15:20,760
that still need to be unearthed I think

3106
02:15:27,020 --> 02:15:25,110
it would take more than that there's a

3107
02:15:29,689 --> 02:15:27,030
lot here Kevin what was the name of the

3108
02:15:34,490 --> 02:15:29,699
project that was formed by the way Cory

3109
02:15:37,009 --> 02:15:34,500
you mean no twinkle probably the green

3110
02:15:39,319 --> 02:15:37,019
fireballs right yeah there were some

3111
02:15:41,930 --> 02:15:39,329
really cool sightings of those as Scott

3112
02:15:44,209 --> 02:15:41,940
pointed out in the tuber area and I

3113
02:15:46,339 --> 02:15:44,219
think the most famous one wasn't it like

3114
02:15:49,069 --> 02:15:46,349
some stadium in Santa Fe everybody in

3115
02:15:51,259 --> 02:15:49,079
the stadium saw any number of

3116
02:15:53,089 --> 02:15:51,269
spectacular yeah there was one there

3117
02:15:55,640 --> 02:15:53,099
without the people that witnessed it

3118
02:15:58,069 --> 02:15:55,650
though anyway Scott you have your your

3119
02:16:01,220 --> 02:15:58,079
guy that's working down you think in the

3120
02:16:04,520 --> 02:16:01,230
area down in Los Alamos around the

3121
02:16:06,830 --> 02:16:04,530
timeframe 4849 continue yeah we don't

3122
02:16:08,299 --> 02:16:06,840
know for sure if it's 48 or 49 he did

3123
02:16:10,729 --> 02:16:08,309
give us some good information we can

3124
02:16:12,709 --> 02:16:10,739
pull up and and archive that what he's

3125
02:16:14,390 --> 02:16:12,719
about what he told us when I'm about to

3126
02:16:17,270 --> 02:16:14,400
tell you there's summoned to the main

3127
02:16:19,279 --> 02:16:17,280
gate of Los Alamos which is the Santa Fe

3128
02:16:23,240 --> 02:16:19,289
side when you come up the front there's

3129
02:16:25,580 --> 02:16:23,250
this huge as he describes flying saucer

3130
02:16:27,200 --> 02:16:25,590
it overhangs so many feet of each side

3131
02:16:29,810 --> 02:16:27,210
of the road it's only 50 feet off the

3132
02:16:31,100 --> 02:16:29,820
ground multiple stories tall and he's

3133
02:16:32,780 --> 02:16:31,110
telling me the story like I said he's a

3134
02:16:34,519 --> 02:16:32,790
very sharp mind and I think Robert

3135
02:16:37,339 --> 02:16:34,529
Hastings is going to interview him here

3136
02:16:39,110 --> 02:16:37,349
shortly and we are allowed to release

3137
02:16:41,209 --> 02:16:39,120
his name I'm waiting for a few more

3138
02:16:43,040 --> 02:16:41,219
documents but he's given us the go-ahead

3139
02:16:45,200 --> 02:16:43,050
to do that and he said then all of a

3140
02:16:47,780 --> 02:16:45,210
sudden the army half tracks and

3141
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:47,790
everything showed up to possibly shoot

3142
02:16:51,020 --> 02:16:50,130
it down I said well we'll wait wait wait

3143
02:16:52,940 --> 02:16:51,030
wait lost

3144
02:16:54,350 --> 02:16:52,950
almost never had armament he said what

3145
02:16:56,780 --> 02:16:54,360
makes you say that I said I've already

3146
02:16:58,550 --> 02:16:56,790
researched that to see if the Aztec

3147
02:17:00,980 --> 02:16:58,560
situation was something that was shot

3148
02:17:04,100 --> 02:17:00,990
down whether it be a flying saucer

3149
02:17:05,900 --> 02:17:04,110
Soviet bomber whatever and he said oh

3150
02:17:08,210 --> 02:17:05,910
they're still talking that story about

3151
02:17:09,650 --> 02:17:08,220
Los Alamos didn't have any armor but

3152
02:17:11,720 --> 02:17:09,660
that's why your national lab not a

3153
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:11,730
military outpost he said there were

3154
02:17:16,670 --> 02:17:14,010
there was military equipment there the

3155
02:17:19,010 --> 02:17:16,680
entire time he was there now Los Alamos

3156
02:17:21,050 --> 02:17:19,020
is a customer of mine I do see them when

3157
02:17:23,720 --> 02:17:21,060
I glide to the four corners I have

3158
02:17:25,970 --> 02:17:23,730
checked yes they did have it to his

3159
02:17:29,210 --> 02:17:25,980
point half-tracks military half-tracks

3160
02:17:30,980 --> 02:17:29,220
with armament on them back in the late

3161
02:17:32,990 --> 02:17:30,990
40s and early fifties they weren't

3162
02:17:34,700 --> 02:17:33,000
supposed to but they had them so and

3163
02:17:36,680 --> 02:17:34,710
what happened was they were worried that

3164
02:17:38,510 --> 02:17:36,690
this object was going to do something it

3165
02:17:41,030 --> 02:17:38,520
stayed around a few minutes shot off and

3166
02:17:43,700 --> 02:17:41,040
was never seen again but it was

3167
02:17:45,320 --> 02:17:43,710
interesting for him to confirm I didn't

3168
02:17:47,720 --> 02:17:45,330
care that much about the fighting the

3169
02:17:49,550 --> 02:17:47,730
fact that they had military equipment at

3170
02:17:51,950 --> 02:17:49,560
Los Alamos in that time frame

3171
02:17:53,330 --> 02:17:51,960
what was the armament half-tracks no no

3172
02:17:55,010 --> 02:17:53,340
that's not armament that's a vehicle

3173
02:17:57,410 --> 02:17:55,020
what it was the armament what did they

3174
02:17:59,420 --> 02:17:57,420
become some type of I forget what

3175
02:18:01,850 --> 02:17:59,430
millimeter Canyon he told me I don't

3176
02:18:03,620 --> 02:18:01,860
have my his notes in front of me but you

3177
02:18:05,390 --> 02:18:03,630
know definitely something to could shoot

3178
02:18:07,910 --> 02:18:05,400
at an object were brought up to the

3179
02:18:09,410 --> 02:18:07,920
front gate well Kevin Oh back during

3180
02:18:11,720 --> 02:18:09,420
that time frame what were half-tracks

3181
02:18:13,190 --> 02:18:11,730
normally armored with a 50 Cal maybe it

3182
02:18:16,100 --> 02:18:13,200
that's what I was thinking it would be a

3183
02:18:18,140 --> 02:18:16,110
20 millimeter can and possibly but I

3184
02:18:19,730 --> 02:18:18,150
would expect I would expect if it was a

3185
02:18:21,770 --> 02:18:19,740
half-track it would probably have

3186
02:18:23,540 --> 02:18:21,780
nothing bigger than a 50 Cal and it

3187
02:18:25,640 --> 02:18:23,550
probably and maybe just a 30 caliber

3188
02:18:27,650 --> 02:18:25,650
machine gun I don't know that's why I

3189
02:18:29,540 --> 02:18:27,660
ask because I know flying helicopters a

3190
02:18:33,380 --> 02:18:29,550
50 caliber machine gun it was was quite

3191
02:18:35,420 --> 02:18:33,390
a frightening thing but but if you're if

3192
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:35,430
you're in if you're in a an armored

3193
02:18:38,900 --> 02:18:36,930
vehicle with 50 caliber machine gun

3194
02:18:40,700 --> 02:18:38,910
isn't isn't quite that frightening so I

3195
02:18:42,680 --> 02:18:40,710
was just curious as to what the armament

3196
02:18:45,980 --> 02:18:42,690
was and I wouldn't be at all surprised

3197
02:18:47,990 --> 02:18:45,990
if they had things with at least 30 Cal

3198
02:18:50,600 --> 02:18:48,000
yeah if they didn't boy they were

3199
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:50,610
dropping the ball my goodness well just

3200
02:18:54,710 --> 02:18:53,010
the fact that they technically go back

3201
02:18:57,670 --> 02:18:54,720
in history they weren't supposed to have

3202
02:19:00,890 --> 02:18:57,680
any military support at all but even

3203
02:19:02,750 --> 02:19:00,900
made it even more ironic when he got the

3204
02:19:04,790 --> 02:19:02,760
book then he called me back and he said

3205
02:19:07,459 --> 02:19:04,800
you know it's funny these radar days

3206
02:19:09,740 --> 02:19:07,469
is the al-wada radar base it had a

3207
02:19:12,139 --> 02:19:09,750
callsign of Los Alamos I said yeah the

3208
02:19:14,389 --> 02:19:12,149
first two years it was Los Alamos radar

3209
02:19:17,270 --> 02:19:14,399
base he said here you're shocked that

3210
02:19:19,549 --> 02:19:17,280
you're finding out we had offensive and

3211
02:19:20,959 --> 02:19:19,559
defensive equipment here at Los Alamos

3212
02:19:22,759 --> 02:19:20,969
and I'm shocked because we didn't know

3213
02:19:26,270 --> 02:19:22,769
about the radar base so that's that's

3214
02:19:28,639 --> 02:19:26,280
how secret like you were that dollars at

3215
02:19:30,139 --> 02:19:28,649
work and playboy yeah well I mean I

3216
02:19:32,450 --> 02:19:30,149
think that shows the level of secrecy

3217
02:19:35,209 --> 02:19:32,460
that was going on to protect Los Alamos

3218
02:19:37,580 --> 02:19:35,219
in the post Manhattan Project but

3219
02:19:40,879 --> 02:19:37,590
doesn't necessarily prove that the Aztec

3220
02:19:43,099 --> 02:19:40,889
case occurred no but it also gave it now

3221
02:19:44,719 --> 02:19:43,109
shows and we're not done with the

3222
02:19:47,030 --> 02:19:44,729
research I'm not going to is based on

3223
02:19:48,710 --> 02:19:47,040
one state and take that to the bank but

3224
02:19:51,349 --> 02:19:48,720
I'm he's a credible guy but we have to

3225
02:19:54,260 --> 02:19:51,359
do more research it shows that they had

3226
02:19:57,889 --> 02:19:54,270
the potential of shooting something down

3227
02:19:59,809 --> 02:19:57,899
yeah okay arguably but what other leads

3228
02:20:02,330 --> 02:19:59,819
are you working on that that sounds like

3229
02:20:04,940 --> 02:20:02,340
a really potentially fruitful Avenue to

3230
02:20:07,010 --> 02:20:04,950
go down but what other leads are you

3231
02:20:09,650 --> 02:20:07,020
tracking up these statements made by the

3232
02:20:11,420 --> 02:20:09,660
ranchers at Suzanne and I met out at the

3233
02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:11,430
book signing that that's got my plate

3234
02:20:16,910 --> 02:20:13,770
pretty full right now I'm care to

3235
02:20:18,530 --> 02:20:16,920
elaborate just like we talked about that

3236
02:20:21,200 --> 02:20:18,540
earlier pardon

3237
02:20:24,500 --> 02:20:21,210
give us a teaser okay what we talked

3238
02:20:26,510 --> 02:20:24,510
about it we were doing our our lecture

3239
02:20:29,690 --> 02:20:26,520
in our book signing and we're approached

3240
02:20:33,620 --> 02:20:29,700
by who when I say Rancher I really mean

3241
02:20:35,660 --> 02:20:33,630
ranch hand that filled in some blanks on

3242
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:35,670
one of the ranchers that we purposely

3243
02:20:39,889 --> 02:20:37,920
left out of the book because there had

3244
02:20:42,110 --> 02:20:39,899
been claims made over the years but they

3245
02:20:44,929 --> 02:20:42,120
we could never find anything either way

3246
02:20:46,670 --> 02:20:44,939
and he is starting to fill in the blanks

3247
02:20:48,860 --> 02:20:46,680
with some things he's telling right you

3248
02:20:50,599 --> 02:20:48,870
did mention that earlier and that could

3249
02:20:52,610 --> 02:20:50,609
be you know potentially a futsal Avenue

3250
02:20:54,469 --> 02:20:52,620
to go down Kevin what are some of the

3251
02:20:57,400 --> 02:20:54,479
things that you would suggest to Scott

3252
02:21:00,380 --> 02:20:57,410
that could possibly aid him in his

3253
02:21:02,059 --> 02:21:00,390
process of really confirming this case I

3254
02:21:03,200 --> 02:21:02,069
don't think there's anything I can

3255
02:21:06,950 --> 02:21:03,210
really tell him that he hasn't caught up

3256
02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:06,960
I know what he needs is no more minds

3257
02:21:11,030 --> 02:21:09,210
are better than one Kevin as I was going

3258
02:21:13,849 --> 02:21:11,040
to say he needs to find some

3259
02:21:15,770 --> 02:21:13,859
documentation from 1948 that predates

3260
02:21:19,290 --> 02:21:15,780
Scully that suggests the events took

3261
02:21:22,200 --> 02:21:19,300
place there he needs to

3262
02:21:25,890 --> 02:21:22,210
yeah you you you've got some people in

3263
02:21:30,870 --> 02:21:25,900
your book for example you've got bass

3264
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:30,880
Sam Samuel bass who supposedly confirmed

3265
02:21:37,980 --> 02:21:33,010
- and I forget who he confirmed it -

3266
02:21:39,960 --> 02:21:37,990
Virgil Riggs Bert yes yes yes yes

3267
02:21:43,740 --> 02:21:39,970
and then he would he went off and got

3268
02:21:45,060 --> 02:21:43,750
killed in Vietnam by a in a hit-and-run

3269
02:21:46,460 --> 02:21:45,070
accident mm-hm

3270
02:21:50,460 --> 02:21:46,470
but there's no evidence that that

3271
02:21:52,320 --> 02:21:50,470
happened well there's your argument is

3272
02:21:56,100 --> 02:21:52,330
there's no evidence because he doesn't

3273
02:21:59,850 --> 02:21:56,110
appear on the Vietnam Wall memorial no

3274
02:22:03,270 --> 02:21:59,860
III my my argument is the there are

3275
02:22:06,060 --> 02:22:03,280
complete records of everyone who died in

3276
02:22:08,490 --> 02:22:06,070
Vietnam regardless of the cause mm-hmm

3277
02:22:10,860 --> 02:22:08,500
their names there are their names appear

3278
02:22:13,440 --> 02:22:10,870
on the wall but there's other databases

3279
02:22:16,380 --> 02:22:13,450
that can be researched and there was no

3280
02:22:19,560 --> 02:22:16,390
one by that name by the proper name and

3281
02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:19,570
it wasn't Sam I know Sam was a nickname

3282
02:22:24,420 --> 02:22:22,210
that's correct yeah but but he he'd

3283
02:22:27,660 --> 02:22:24,430
there was no air force person killed in

3284
02:22:29,100 --> 02:22:27,670
that way in Vietnam so you need to you

3285
02:22:32,700 --> 02:22:29,110
need to kind of look at that sort of

3286
02:22:35,160 --> 02:22:32,710
thing and see if you can find a record

3287
02:22:38,011 --> 02:22:35,170
to suggest that when you get military

3288
02:22:39,750 --> 02:22:38,021
witnesses you need to go to st. Louis to

3289
02:22:41,310 --> 02:22:39,760
check their records to make sure that

3290
02:22:43,170 --> 02:22:41,320
they are who they say they are and they

3291
02:22:45,120 --> 02:22:43,180
did what they say they did and they had

3292
02:22:49,500 --> 02:22:45,130
the training they claimed to have had

3293
02:22:51,930 --> 02:22:49,510
because of an a dd-214 correct mm-hmm

3294
02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:51,940
you've got to verify those because I

3295
02:22:57,301 --> 02:22:53,530
can't tell you how many fake ones I've

3296
02:23:00,150 --> 02:22:57,311
seen now Frank Kaufman had all the

3297
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:00,160
documents you could care and care to see

3298
02:23:03,690 --> 02:23:01,930
to prove that he was who he said he was

3299
02:23:06,090 --> 02:23:03,700
but when we went to st. Louis we found

3300
02:23:07,710 --> 02:23:06,100
out that he had altered the documents so

3301
02:23:09,990 --> 02:23:07,720
even though you've got a DD Form 214

3302
02:23:12,390 --> 02:23:10,000
you've got to go to st. Louis to make

3303
02:23:12,840 --> 02:23:12,400
sure that they haven't haven't doctored

3304
02:23:15,120 --> 02:23:12,850
it

3305
02:23:16,920 --> 02:23:15,130
Robert Willingham did the same thing

3306
02:23:18,720 --> 02:23:16,930
clearly doctored

3307
02:23:20,730 --> 02:23:18,730
documents and forms when we went to st.

3308
02:23:22,650 --> 02:23:20,740
Louis we discovered he hadn't been a

3309
02:23:24,870 --> 02:23:22,660
full colonel in the Air Force he had

3310
02:23:27,000 --> 02:23:24,880
been an e4 low ranking enlisted man in

3311
02:23:29,011 --> 02:23:27,010
the army at the very end of World War

3312
02:23:31,110 --> 02:23:29,021
two so you've got to look at all of

3313
02:23:32,190 --> 02:23:31,120
those sorts of things as you do is it's

3314
02:23:33,450 --> 02:23:32,200
to verify

3315
02:23:36,150 --> 02:23:33,460
you've got to make sure that people were

3316
02:23:37,770 --> 02:23:36,160
there and had a reason for being there

3317
02:23:39,270 --> 02:23:37,780
when they claim to being there we found

3318
02:23:40,890 --> 02:23:39,280
people who claim to have been allows

3319
02:23:43,080 --> 02:23:40,900
well and when we've confronted them with

3320
02:23:45,690 --> 02:23:43,090
the evidence they were not and then we

3321
02:23:47,220 --> 02:23:45,700
find out their story was was bogus I

3322
02:23:50,190 --> 02:23:47,230
mean you've got to verify all those

3323
02:23:52,921 --> 02:23:50,200
sorts of facts oh we do Jenny I can't

3324
02:23:55,011 --> 02:23:52,931
wait yes he asked me what I would

3325
02:23:58,620 --> 02:23:55,021
suggest I understand

3326
02:24:00,570 --> 02:23:58,630
folks were almost there almost wrapped

3327
02:24:03,750 --> 02:24:00,580
up with this segment of the power cast

3328
02:24:06,631 --> 02:24:03,760
the book is called the Aztec incident

3329
02:24:10,320 --> 02:24:06,641
and we have Kevin Randall talking to

3330
02:24:12,690 --> 02:24:10,330
Scott Ramsay Kevin being the skeptic in

3331
02:24:15,960 --> 02:24:12,700
terms of the possibility of an Aztec

3332
02:24:18,150 --> 02:24:15,970
crash Scott Ramsay giving us the case

3333
02:24:28,880 --> 02:24:18,160
for it happening more to come with Jean

3334
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America's number one source for

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3429
02:28:48,031 --> 02:28:45,151
hi this is ted phillips listening to the

3430
02:28:57,270 --> 02:28:48,041
parrot cast and it's as good as it gets

3431
02:29:00,060 --> 02:28:57,280
believe me on the power cast with Xena

3432
02:29:02,100 --> 02:29:00,070
and Chris we could have done another two

3433
02:29:04,190 --> 02:29:02,110
shows like this but we're happy to have

3434
02:29:08,690 --> 02:29:04,200
Kevin Randall and Scott Ramsay together

3435
02:29:11,430 --> 02:29:08,700
whip out the band-aids in the Vaseline

3436
02:29:13,651 --> 02:29:11,440
this is great you guys have you no

3437
02:29:15,390 --> 02:29:13,661
debating this topic in a way that it

3438
02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:15,400
should be debated and I commend you both

3439
02:29:20,520 --> 02:29:17,650
I think you both putting forth

3440
02:29:22,951 --> 02:29:20,530
compelling arguments obviously Scott

3441
02:29:25,140 --> 02:29:22,961
there's things that as when we left

3442
02:29:27,781 --> 02:29:25,150
Kevin was suggesting that that you

3443
02:29:29,730 --> 02:29:27,791
should consider doing and I agree one

3444
02:29:31,171 --> 02:29:29,740
thing I want to add is getting George to

3445
02:29:33,961 --> 02:29:31,181
go on the record so we can look them up

3446
02:29:35,071 --> 02:29:33,971
in the Roswell base yearbook Scott's got

3447
02:29:37,411 --> 02:29:35,081
a copy of the yearbook and they've

3448
02:29:39,961 --> 02:29:37,421
looked him up and that really kind of

3449
02:29:41,701 --> 02:29:39,971
ends that debate you know God doesn't

3450
02:29:43,861 --> 02:29:41,711
have a copy in the bit of the book

3451
02:29:46,411 --> 02:29:43,871
Dennis ball Kaiser has a copy of the

3452
02:29:48,690 --> 02:29:46,421
book hello everybody's got a copy of it

3453
02:29:53,161 --> 02:29:48,700
I got a 3d with a copy of it on it very

3454
02:29:55,171 --> 02:29:53,171
good you know Kevin's right about you

3455
02:29:57,270 --> 02:29:55,181
know you got to vet these people and we

3456
02:29:59,821 --> 02:29:57,280
do we there's probably a stack here and

3457
02:30:01,801 --> 02:29:59,831
maybe to have other people that have

3458
02:30:05,041 --> 02:30:01,811
made claims over there and and whether

3459
02:30:06,541 --> 02:30:05,051
they the claims are legitimate or not we

3460
02:30:08,131 --> 02:30:06,551
can't prove what they're saying

3461
02:30:12,060 --> 02:30:08,141
therefore they don't make it into the

3462
02:30:14,850 --> 02:30:12,070
book going back to Thomas Bass who is

3463
02:30:16,921 --> 02:30:14,860
nicknamed the sand bath he is in the

3464
02:30:19,881 --> 02:30:16,931
base yearbook we've we have a picture of

3465
02:30:24,451 --> 02:30:19,891
that there's no doubt that he existed

3466
02:30:27,001 --> 02:30:24,461
and the CC AF database that you refer to

3467
02:30:30,211 --> 02:30:27,011
and like all of them they all have a

3468
02:30:32,730 --> 02:30:30,221
disclaimer in the CCF database there's a

3469
02:30:36,301 --> 02:30:32,740
flamer at the end says the CC AF

3470
02:30:38,341 --> 02:30:36,311
database is known to contain errors it's

3471
02:30:40,801 --> 02:30:38,351
right there the database you used the

3472
02:30:44,390 --> 02:30:40,811
one you cite okay do errors mean

3473
02:30:48,301 --> 02:30:44,400
omission of material or material in that

3474
02:30:49,410 --> 02:30:48,311
document that is not correct they don't

3475
02:30:51,810 --> 02:30:49,420
go beyond that I

3476
02:30:54,420 --> 02:30:51,820
I may can basically hedge their bets

3477
02:30:56,460 --> 02:30:54,430
well they have to it's a nonprofit group

3478
02:30:58,800 --> 02:30:56,470
of volunteers that maintain these sites

3479
02:31:01,170 --> 02:30:58,810
Kevin I know you you found errors over

3480
02:31:03,179 --> 02:31:01,180
the years doing your research we found a

3481
02:31:04,200 --> 02:31:03,189
good one I'll make this quick I know

3482
02:31:07,800 --> 02:31:04,210
you're running out of time

3483
02:31:10,620 --> 02:31:07,810
the t-80 fighter that crashed Attica in

3484
02:31:12,990 --> 02:31:10,630
Carrizozo back in Felisa do you remember

3485
02:31:14,940 --> 02:31:13,000
that Kevin that ring a bike I know but I

3486
02:31:19,590 --> 02:31:14,950
know about the event yeah yeah you look

3487
02:31:22,740 --> 02:31:19,600
at what J Andy Kistner the the state rep

3488
02:31:24,840 --> 02:31:22,750
when he pulled that crash he got a crash

3489
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:24,850
report that says the pilot was making a

3490
02:31:29,460 --> 02:31:27,010
dead stick approach almost out of fuel

3491
02:31:31,050 --> 02:31:29,470
and he was coming he's trying to get

3492
02:31:33,300 --> 02:31:31,060
back to a March Air Force Base in

3493
02:31:35,010 --> 02:31:33,310
California I go down to Maxwell sit

3494
02:31:37,170 --> 02:31:35,020
there for five days because that there

3495
02:31:39,929 --> 02:31:37,180
was some key threads to that crash that

3496
02:31:41,730 --> 02:31:39,939
we want to use for comparison Archie

3497
02:31:43,710 --> 02:31:41,740
dafonte comes up and says oh here's the

3498
02:31:45,540 --> 02:31:43,720
one we gave the Kistner I said okay

3499
02:31:47,310 --> 02:31:45,550
let's keep digging because this is

3500
02:31:49,740 --> 02:31:47,320
completely different from what the mayor

3501
02:31:52,050 --> 02:31:49,750
is telling us we find a second crash

3502
02:31:54,510 --> 02:31:52,060
report this one's an internal document

3503
02:31:56,940 --> 02:31:54,520
more classified which I have right here

3504
02:31:59,100 --> 02:31:56,950
the other one was to be released to the

3505
02:32:01,020 --> 02:31:59,110
press the second crash report hasn't

3506
02:32:03,570 --> 02:32:01,030
taking off well you know why they

3507
02:32:05,820 --> 02:32:03,580
classify those reports I know why they

3508
02:32:08,370 --> 02:32:05,830
did this one and it's to help your case

3509
02:32:10,410 --> 02:32:08,380
but go ahead no the reason they classify

3510
02:32:12,810 --> 02:32:10,420
well it was a million accident report

3511
02:32:15,860 --> 02:32:12,820
either I guess yeah well no accident

3512
02:32:18,270 --> 02:32:15,870
accident accident reports are classified

3513
02:32:20,070 --> 02:32:18,280
so that when they interview various

3514
02:32:22,590 --> 02:32:20,080
people they can they will speak freely

3515
02:32:24,210 --> 02:32:22,600
and say exactly what happened without

3516
02:32:24,660 --> 02:32:24,220
fear of repercussion from the chain of

3517
02:32:26,520 --> 02:32:24,670
command

3518
02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:26,530
you know the actual reports are always

3519
02:32:30,510 --> 02:32:29,050
classified well I think this line is a

3520
02:32:33,000 --> 02:32:30,520
little more classified because he's

3521
02:32:35,640 --> 02:32:33,010
going up to photograph flying saucers

3522
02:32:37,469 --> 02:32:35,650
flying near Roswell Army Airfield I'm

3523
02:32:40,500 --> 02:32:37,479
just saying that there's a reason

3524
02:32:42,510 --> 02:32:40,510
accident report applied that's not right

3525
02:32:45,150 --> 02:32:42,520
but you know you can read Crest

3526
02:32:46,950 --> 02:32:45,160
documents and we found it with a stick

3527
02:32:48,300 --> 02:32:46,960
yeah you make three requests with three

3528
02:32:50,130 --> 02:32:48,310
different people at Maxwell you get

3529
02:32:53,580 --> 02:32:50,140
three different pile of documents but

3530
02:32:55,469 --> 02:32:53,590
anyway that's interesting oh yeah yeah

3531
02:32:58,020 --> 02:32:55,479
we've got good examples right here well

3532
02:32:59,670 --> 02:32:58,030
the p80 is the the classic one where one

3533
02:33:02,370 --> 02:32:59,680
he's landing when he's taken off which

3534
02:33:03,060 --> 02:33:02,380
one was it your tax dollars are at work

3535
02:33:05,251 --> 02:33:03,070
ladies

3536
02:33:07,410 --> 02:33:05,261
but-but-but-but we stray off the the

3537
02:33:09,330 --> 02:33:07,420
Aztek case here we've gone off on a lot

3538
02:33:12,150 --> 02:33:09,340
of different tangents here and what we

3539
02:33:14,001 --> 02:33:12,160
really need is some solid evidence that

3540
02:33:17,400 --> 02:33:14,011
the events took place and in March of

3541
02:33:19,890 --> 02:33:17,410
1948 and we have a lot of people talking

3542
02:33:22,650 --> 02:33:19,900
about this but there's nothing to prove

3543
02:33:24,511 --> 02:33:22,660
that the event took place in 1948 it's

3544
02:33:26,700 --> 02:33:24,521
all post Scully

3545
02:33:28,291 --> 02:33:26,710
and that's the real problem we need to

3546
02:33:30,301 --> 02:33:28,301
find something that is pre Scully it's

3547
02:33:31,740 --> 02:33:30,311
the same problem I have with well that's

3548
02:33:34,560 --> 02:33:31,750
right I've been say in the last two

3549
02:33:38,131 --> 02:33:34,570
hours or three hours here broadcast on

3550
02:33:40,350 --> 02:33:38,141
yeah we need really good slam-dunk even

3551
02:33:42,870 --> 02:33:40,360
smoking evidence we Scully that's really

3552
02:33:44,761 --> 02:33:42,880
important yes that and that that would

3553
02:33:47,310 --> 02:33:44,771
be a very critical and very and very

3554
02:33:52,011 --> 02:33:47,320
persuasive bit of evidence to find some

3555
02:33:55,410 --> 02:33:52,021
documentation pre Scully Scott so how do

3556
02:33:57,450 --> 02:33:55,420
yes okay so how do you do that at this

3557
02:33:59,671 --> 02:33:57,460
late stage how are you going to find

3558
02:34:03,330 --> 02:33:59,681
that documentation if that's what makes

3559
02:34:09,150 --> 02:34:03,340
someone like Kevin Randall dismiss this

3560
02:34:11,070 --> 02:34:09,160
thing entirely right here and it since

3561
02:34:14,370 --> 02:34:11,080
Scott has the inroads to the people and

3562
02:34:16,110 --> 02:34:14,380
a stack is ask those people if anybody's

3563
02:34:18,301 --> 02:34:16,120
got a personal diary anybody's got

3564
02:34:21,091 --> 02:34:18,311
letters anybody but you've got anything

3565
02:34:23,970 --> 02:34:21,101
that mentions this event prior to Scully

3566
02:34:25,770 --> 02:34:23,980
you know in that timeframe a lot of

3567
02:34:28,740 --> 02:34:25,780
people kept Diaries a lot of people kept

3568
02:34:30,450 --> 02:34:28,750
notes one of the one of the things that

3569
02:34:32,820 --> 02:34:30,460
really harmed the Barney Barnett case

3570
02:34:35,820 --> 02:34:32,830
was Ruth Barnett it turned out kept a

3571
02:34:38,580 --> 02:34:35,830
diary for 1947 so on the date that he

3572
02:34:40,680 --> 02:34:38,590
supposedly was seeing the UFO we know

3573
02:34:43,650 --> 02:34:40,690
exactly where he was because because

3574
02:34:45,240 --> 02:34:43,660
Ruth Barnett diary told us and and we

3575
02:34:47,041 --> 02:34:45,250
found that because we asked for those

3576
02:34:49,680 --> 02:34:47,051
sorts of things and Alice Knight finally

3577
02:34:52,261 --> 02:34:49,690
said oh I found my aunt kept a diary in

3578
02:34:54,330 --> 02:34:52,271
that and I have it and so that's one of

3579
02:34:57,900 --> 02:34:54,340
the ways you do it yeah I'm sure Scott

3580
02:34:59,671 --> 02:34:57,910
you know much to Scotts credit I'm sure

3581
02:35:01,860 --> 02:34:59,681
he is really banged a bunch of Kiko

3582
02:35:04,381 --> 02:35:01,870
bushes around therefore for that sort of

3583
02:35:06,480 --> 02:35:04,391
thing but your point is well-taken I'm

3584
02:35:08,341 --> 02:35:06,490
sure and Scott you probably agree that

3585
02:35:10,770 --> 02:35:08,351
it would be great to come up with that

3586
02:35:13,560 --> 02:35:10,780
I'd like to have the lug nuts off of it

3587
02:35:15,751 --> 02:35:13,570
let's go back that Valentine Archuleta

3588
02:35:17,430 --> 02:35:15,761
he's passed now and unfortunately his

3589
02:35:20,700 --> 02:35:17,440
wife has his

3590
02:35:24,180 --> 02:35:20,710
and fun are a lot Valentine was telling

3591
02:35:26,040 --> 02:35:24,190
this story in 48 right Darrin Aztec he

3592
02:35:28,170 --> 02:35:26,050
has the ranch if you're standing at the

3593
02:35:31,500 --> 02:35:28,180
what we call the crash site and looking

3594
02:35:34,470 --> 02:35:31,510
due south his ranch is almost perfectly

3595
02:35:37,440 --> 02:35:34,480
due south of the Mesa he was telling

3596
02:35:40,530 --> 02:35:37,450
this story in March of 48 and you

3597
02:35:44,280 --> 02:35:40,540
document that how I I documented through

3598
02:35:47,970 --> 02:35:44,290
interviews of not him but his kids his

3599
02:35:48,690 --> 02:35:47,980
nephews and his cousins not really write

3600
02:35:50,640 --> 02:35:48,700
it down

3601
02:35:52,051 --> 02:35:50,650
you also yeah that's the point that he

3602
02:35:56,430 --> 02:35:52,061
write it down and you also told me that

3603
02:35:58,410 --> 02:35:56,440
the one guy that bought Dunning's land

3604
02:35:59,820 --> 02:35:58,420
said he bought it in 1948

3605
02:36:02,190 --> 02:35:59,830
we checked the record and found out that

3606
02:36:06,870 --> 02:36:02,200
he didn't buy it until 1953 so without

3607
02:36:09,000 --> 02:36:06,880
documentation now I like and that's the

3608
02:36:11,700 --> 02:36:09,010
point we've got nothing to that his

3609
02:36:13,410 --> 02:36:11,710
press Cully that we can nail down you

3610
02:36:14,880 --> 02:36:13,420
know if the guy went on the radio and

3611
02:36:18,030 --> 02:36:14,890
talked about it he had a transcript from

3612
02:36:20,910 --> 02:36:18,040
1948 if he if he wrote it down if there

3613
02:36:22,920 --> 02:36:20,920
was some bit of evidence that's proved

3614
02:36:25,650 --> 02:36:22,930
that he was talking about this pre

3615
02:36:27,150 --> 02:36:25,660
Scully that would be great but but but

3616
02:36:27,900 --> 02:36:27,160
afterwards you know saying well I talked

3617
02:36:30,420 --> 02:36:27,910
about it before

3618
02:36:32,341 --> 02:36:30,430
Scully can't book came out that doesn't

3619
02:36:33,930 --> 02:36:32,351
do with any good so your position in

3620
02:36:35,460 --> 02:36:33,940
Cabot and we're just about to wrap it up

3621
02:36:38,450 --> 02:36:35,470
so we have to really keep it quicker

3622
02:36:41,490 --> 02:36:38,460
your position is that the Scully book

3623
02:36:44,341 --> 02:36:41,500
contaminated the evidence trail and made

3624
02:36:46,110 --> 02:36:44,351
more difficult we know this is not going

3625
02:36:48,810 --> 02:36:46,120
to get solved today we didn't expect

3626
02:36:51,210 --> 02:36:48,820
that it would be Scott Ramsey's book is

3627
02:36:54,360 --> 02:36:51,220
called the Aztec incident written with

3628
02:36:56,640 --> 02:36:54,370
his wife Suzanne Frank Thayer and Frank

3629
02:36:58,801 --> 02:36:56,650
Warren and I gather there will be new

3630
02:37:01,110 --> 02:36:58,811
additions to this book ongoing as they

3631
02:37:02,640 --> 02:37:01,120
get further information Scott you have a

3632
02:37:04,430 --> 02:37:02,650
website where people can check it out

3633
02:37:08,580 --> 02:37:04,440
yeah absolutely

3634
02:37:10,620 --> 02:37:08,590
WWE Aztec incident calm you can read

3635
02:37:13,140 --> 02:37:10,630
segments of the book and if you have an

3636
02:37:15,841 --> 02:37:13,150
interest you can purchase a book from

3637
02:37:18,480 --> 02:37:15,851
the website in Scott you're almost sold

3638
02:37:21,270 --> 02:37:18,490
out of your first printing we actually

3639
02:37:23,970 --> 02:37:21,280
did sell out I retained a few books here

3640
02:37:25,470 --> 02:37:23,980
to fill the interim before the second

3641
02:37:27,540 --> 02:37:25,480
printing but yeah we you know when

3642
02:37:29,280 --> 02:37:27,550
having a bridge sort of second edition

3643
02:37:30,480 --> 02:37:29,290
with some of the new information oh good

3644
02:37:33,150 --> 02:37:30,490
yes I got a quick

3645
02:37:35,040 --> 02:37:33,160
Mount Taylor about Taylor and call it

3646
02:37:37,140 --> 02:37:35,050
Taylor Mountain and fix the Spelling's

3647
02:37:39,360 --> 02:37:37,150
okay Kevin Randall where do we find more

3648
02:37:41,690 --> 02:37:39,370
of your stuff you can of course it's on

3649
02:37:45,060 --> 02:37:41,700
amazon.com you can take a look at my

3650
02:37:46,770 --> 02:37:45,070
different perspectives yes thank you and

3651
02:37:49,530 --> 02:37:46,780
my latest book is alien mysteries

3652
02:37:51,330 --> 02:37:49,540
conspiracies and cover-ups which should

3653
02:37:53,640 --> 02:37:51,340
be in your book stores even as we speak

3654
02:37:56,310 --> 02:37:53,650
we covered it last time you're on the

3655
02:37:58,530 --> 02:37:56,320
show and by the way Chris O'Brien tell

3656
02:37:59,131 --> 02:37:58,540
our listeners where can we find your

3657
02:38:01,650 --> 02:37:59,141
stuff

3658
02:38:03,961 --> 02:38:01,660
well the strange planet it's our screens

3659
02:38:06,660 --> 02:38:03,971
planet comm and he's working on a book

3660
02:38:09,660 --> 02:38:06,670
called stalking the herd you can find us

3661
02:38:12,720 --> 02:38:09,670
on Twitter where we are known as the

3662
02:38:16,110 --> 02:38:12,730
para cast imagine that we also have a

3663
02:38:18,390 --> 02:38:16,120
para cast fan club on Facebook but

3664
02:38:20,400 --> 02:38:18,400
actually the way it's worked out we have

3665
02:38:22,591 --> 02:38:20,410
to and someday we'll figure out how to

3666
02:38:28,500 --> 02:38:22,601
merge them with one you can also check

3667
02:38:31,020 --> 02:38:28,510
out our web portal at WWE para cast com

3668
02:38:33,091 --> 02:38:31,030
we also have forums at forum doctor para

3669
02:38:34,650 --> 02:38:33,101
cast comm where you can post your

3670
02:38:36,720 --> 02:38:34,660
questions we didn't get to everything

3671
02:38:37,680 --> 02:38:36,730
today because there's just no way too

3672
02:38:40,381 --> 02:38:37,690
much to cover

3673
02:38:42,120 --> 02:38:40,391
Scott Ramsey Kevin Randall thank you

3674
02:38:44,280 --> 02:38:42,130
both so much for joining us on the para

3675
02:38:45,330 --> 02:38:44,290
cast thank you Chris Thank You Jean

3676
02:38:49,381 --> 02:38:45,340
thank you everybody

3677
02:38:55,730 --> 02:38:49,391
Scott thanks Jean thanks Chris thanks

3678
02:39:00,781 --> 02:38:58,980
the para cast featuring Jim Steinberg

3679
02:39:03,900 --> 02:39:00,791
and Christopher o'brien

3680
02:39:06,880 --> 02:39:03,910
is a copyrighted presentation of making

3681
02:39:10,349 --> 02:39:06,890
the impossible Incorporated